CNET: Microsoft courts Lotus developers

January 23 2004

If at first you don't succeed, try try again...

Ken Bisconti, vice president of Workplace products for Lotus, said the majority of the 500,000 active Lotus developers are finding comfortable ways to adopt to Java. LotusScript developers can find similar script-oriented capabilities in Javascript and its offshoots, while Domino developers used to doing low-level programming can work directly with Java code.
"When you try to address application development needs, you need to keep in mind there's a spectrum of application development requirements," Bisconti said. "We're trying to address that broad spectrum by providing products and education and tools that help developers at all levels."
Didn't I say that the other day? ;)
Bernardo said Microsoft is quietly working with Lotus developers to tout the advantage of using VisualBasic or VisualStudio.Net to extend and update their Lotus work. And while those developers are contemplating migration, Microsoft figures it can make a pitch for moving their whole business from Lotus to Microsoft's Exchange e-mail server and collaboration software.
Jim, I hope you are as successful with this effort as you were with InfoImage, IT Factory, and all the other one-time Lotus partners y'all have attempted to get to move their applications to Exchange.  Especially since there's no "there" there anymore -- didn't Microsoft just finish repositioning Exchange 2003 as just a mail and calendar server?   I'm sure I have that Paul Flessner quote around here somewhere.
Link: CNET: Microsoft courts Lotus developers >

Ed Brill | Highland Park, IL USA Category:  In the news  Add/View Comments [15]

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  1. 1  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.GeniiSoft.com | 1/23/2004 12:01:20 PM

    Microsoft keeps calling and trying to get me to write software for them. I say "them" rather than "Exchange" because the people calling never seem to have a clue either what Genii Software does or what it could do for Microsoft. They just see a successful company selling products to the Notes world and think "Why not have them write for .Net?", but it would be a lot more compelling if they had any clue what they were talking about. I am not about to write a Midas for Exchange, or for SQL Server, or for whatever. It is hardly an impressive performance (although I'll bet they put on a better show for GWI or IT Factory or InfoImage than for little old Genii). I wouldn't worry too much about the courting, since IBM has a far better story to tell, at least right now..

  1. 2  Chris Toohey http://www.dominoguru.com | 1/23/2004 12:54:23 PM

    While I think that M$ "courting" us is a foolish thing (the true yellow-bleeders just ain't jumping), I firmly believe that we should learn technologies outside of Domino, if not for our own resumes than the fact that one technology can do things differently than another. This isn't the whole "you can hammer a screw, but I'd rather use a screwdriver"-argument, but rather a statement that, IMHO, you can learn a lot from the methodologies of another development platform. As we are *constantly* making Domino do more than it was designed to do, learning another technology set that's outside of Domino or Websphere can lend to your awareness and make you force Domino to yet again do another great undocumented trick.

  1. 3  David Richardson  | 1/23/2004 1:32:03 PM

    Of course Microsoft doesn't offer a packaged solution that comes within a country mile of the Domino/Notes solution, but Java doesn't really seem to me to be the issue at stake.

    Sorry Ed, I know that this horse has been beaten to death, but the article should substitute 'WebSphere' for 'Java'. It is the focus on WebSphere as the application server platform that causes grief (where there is any).

    The SME market needs small footprint, low maintenance application servers, and Domino comes closer to the needs here than anything else. Websphere is just too much (of everything) for such deployments - and still doesn't provide a component object model to match, say Tapestry or perhaps even WebObjects (in the Java world).

    It is the component object model (for HTTP applications) available in ASP.Net that provides a competent alternative. There are still problems, there, though. ASP.NET 1.1 doesn't provide a proper templating mechanism for the HTTP server, but at least one can be written.

    Why doesn't Domino provide access to the http process in such a way that programatic rewrites of the input and output stream are possible? Notes/Domino should be the optimal blog engine, but because it is unbelievably difficult to manage the navigation and style elements of the html stream, it is only used by the faithful.

    I really can't imagine using Exchange, though. The real danger to Notes is the rise of modern filesystems (WinFS, Reiser FS4, and whatever Apple does with its existing but regressing capabilities in HFS+) with extended attribute capabilities.

    When these become ubiquitous, the advantages of the notes storage facility model become much less compelling, and the programming language/app server choice become moot.

  1. 4  Gary Devendorf  | 1/23/2004 1:34:53 PM

    My comments to E-week are ment to help LotusScript/Notes developers. IBM has reduced the number of developers working a Notes/Domino by 90%. What is shipping in 6.5 and 7 are things that have been in the pipeline from 6. After that what will happen. You can change the definition of Notes/Domino by including DB2 and web sphere. Then count those developers but it still won't get you an @forumula debugger or LotusScript object browser.

  1. 5  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 1/23/2004 1:48:33 PM

    You really have no idea what development allocations are among the various products -today-. Even if you did (which you obviously don't), it's pretty unprofessional to be sharing them.

  1. 6  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 1/23/2004 2:03:38 PM

  1. 7  Alan Lepofsky  | 1/23/2004 2:12:32 PM

    Ed's Blog is not the best place to discuss this, but come on Gary, your statements are not even close to true, and you know it. From the limited group you used to work with, yes the resources dedicated to "pure coding of the Domino features you used to work on" are lower, but there have been many new teams (not people, teams) added to the Domino group, bring the overall development number higher than it was before you left. (and yes, you left, there were opportunities for you to stay) In case you have not noticed due to your MS brainwashing, things have noticeably changed with respect to Domino. Too bad you won't be representing MS at Lotusphere (I guess you'd be too hard to hide behind a fake badge) to hear the announcements first hand, but you can continue along with the MS fud all you like. Based on recent press quotes claiming you to have been an IBM Executive, and the misrepresentation of the ex-Workflow team now at MS, apparently facts are not all that important once you work at MS. You are my friend Gary, I'm disappointed to see you say things like this in public. It does no good for your friends, yours peers, your former employer, nor your new one. It simply hurts the future credibility of anything you say, simple as that.

  1. 8  Nathan T. Freeman  | 1/23/2004 2:55:33 PM

    Why do I keep having visions of Fred and Daphne tearing a mask off Buga and Shaggy going "ZOINKS?"

  1. 9  Sean Burgess http://www.phigsaidwhat.com | 1/23/2004 3:10:20 PM

    Did you get hot butter on that popcorn? If so, make sure you pass it along and I will be sure to share my Twizzlers.

  1. 10  Adam Osborne  | 1/23/2004 3:13:27 PM

    Free Speech... you've got to love it.

    I vote for the formula debugger, and can't wait to get my hands on the NSF2DB2 stuff.

    As for everything else, time will tell who is right, and who is currently misguided.

  1. 11  AlanLepo  | 1/23/2004 3:32:40 PM

    Free speach is great, I agree. So are the facts. Fact: The # of Notes/Domino developers today is not 10% of what is was, and it was wrong to suggest that.

    BTW Nathan, I think old man Winters did it! :-)

  1. 12  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com | 1/23/2004 6:08:27 PM

    And he would've gotten away with it too, if it hadn't a been fer those pesky kids.

  1. 13  Sean Burgess http://www.phigsaidwhat.com/Phigment.nsf/dx/01232004042729PMSBUT62.htm | 1/23/2004 9:52:17 PM

    " Ain't nothing like a good geek fight to get the juices flowing, and just in time for LotusSphere."

  1. 14  AlanLepo  | 1/23/2004 11:28:27 PM

    Gary and I are friends, and I know how to seperate work from personal. I just disagree with the claims he is making, and want to ensure people know the truth. I'm off to pack for Orlando. See you all there. Make sure to attend the keynote, it's going to be a good one!

  1. 15  Gary Devendorf www.garydev.com | 1/29/2004 2:41:05 PM

    To be clear, Alan is right. I haven't been at Lotus for almost a year and what I hear is mostly from folks who are sympathetic to me being laid off. Kind of sour grapes: “Now that you aren’t there things aren’t going well.” I have no specifics.

    The trajectory of LotusScript wasn’t looking good last March. However, I’m very surprised and pleased that IBM is now talking about release 7 and 8 and that LotusScript would be enhanced. Who would believe that big IBM could come around? Let’s hope LotusScript keeps going. I used to say LotusScript is like COBAL; you can come out of retirement and still use it. LotusScript is everywhere. Let’s keep it that way.