SearchEnterpriseLinux: IBM: Domino to support only enterprise Linux distros

April 8 2004

An interview with IBM's John Woods and Ken Brunsen about the world of Notes/Domino as far as Linux.  Here are the interview questions:

  • Are IBM customers interested in Linux messaging? If so, how is IBM responding?
  • Why has enterprise Linux become an appealing platform for corporate messaging?
  • What is the biggest beef you hear about Linux from Domino users?
  • Many IT pros have told us that their companies want to get off Microsoft Exchange, and they're interested in Linux as a messaging platform. How does Lotus messaging offer an alternative to Exchange?
  • IBM has put out two Linux-friendly products, Lotus Domino Web Access and Lotus Workplace. What about Notes on Linux?
  • How does Lotus Domino Web Access' functionality on Linux and Windows compare?
for the answers.... Link: SearchEnterpriseLinux: IBM: Domino to support only enterprise Linux distros >

Ed Brill | Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Lotus  Add/View Comments [15]

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  1. 1  neil www.domino-guru.co.uk | 4/8/2004 10:25:31 AM

    "We haven't heard a lot about Notes on Linux from customers, and that is one of the reasons why you don't see it being available on Linux. We're not seeing demand for Notes on Linux, but are seeing demand for Domino on Linux on the server side"

    Sorry but check note.net forums, these people are your customers, and they are asking. Our web development team are moving to Linux and they want Notes to run natievely.....

    other than that, keep pushing exchange to Domino on Linux.... Excellent !!!

  1. 2  Joe Barnhart  | 4/8/2004 2:26:53 PM

    "They're mostly just dabblers and enthusiasts for both Linux and Domino."

    How about describing us as "early adopters" or "technology leaders?" Dabblers, indeed. The term implies a negative attitude towards anyone who does not "step up" to the Enterprise distros.

    Could it be that not everyone sees the inherent benefit of using the high-priced "enterprise" product lines from RH and SuSE? I certainly don't.

    But then, I'm an enthusiastic dabbler...

  1. 3  Heini  | 4/8/2004 2:31:25 PM

    Unfortunately there is always a mixture between Linux and Red Hat/SuSe, especially in the IBM context. That is why I think the current subject is quite appropriate although I am not sure if you think that the answers are, what IBM Lotus customers like to hear.

    http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/01/28/debian_fastest_growing_linux_distribution.html

    The fastest growing distribution is neither Red Hat nor SuSe. I am not surprised that some TCO reports of Linux vs. Windows are that bad. I would love not to say so but for Domino I go to Redmond (although my own servers run on Debian).

    Apart from that, Ken "Kenbo" Brunsen is an awesome man , probably one of tha best that Lotus Software has. This guy really rocks.

  1. 4  Mike Lazar  | 4/8/2004 2:42:56 PM

    I work with several Fortune 1000s, and the only people asking for the Linux Notes client are the techies. Sorry, but these are not the decision makers. The people clamoring for a Linux client on Notes.net are the techies and enthusiasts. They are not the CxOs and decision makers. The market simply isn't there to justify the build. As for the enterprise version question, it was answered very succinctly. You cannot support version when the life cycle is 9-12 months. Hence, they will support the enterprise versions with 5 year cycles. This doesn't mean that you can't run Domino on a professional release, you just won't get support. The same is true for Windows 2000 Professional.

  1. 5  Michael Granit  | 4/8/2004 4:03:47 PM

    Ed,

    Has IBM ever looked into building its own Distro with Domino built in (i.e. No Apache web server, no Sendmail, all Domino) or partnering with a distro and developing a CD that both installs Domino and Linux in one swoop? I'm sure market demand may not be there but if there was a solution that mde installing Domino on Linux as easy as a few clicks, more companies may be inclined to switch.

  1. 6    | 4/8/2004 4:05:15 PM

    >>This doesn't mean that you can't run Domino on a professional release, you just won't get support.

    And long may that continue. As a Partner specialising in Domino app dev it has been great to be able to install Domino on RH Linux 9 and be able to develop & test the applications. It is also hugely satisfying that we can do our work on Domino/Linux even if our customers decide to run the app on Domino/Windows.

    So please don't put anything into the Domino server install that prohibits installation on Linux platforms like RH9.

  1. 7  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 4/8/2004 5:19:22 PM

    A bundle with SuSE and Domino was done some time ago. Not sure of it's success at the time. A good idea to examine or re-examine.

  1. 8  Bernard Devlin  | 4/8/2004 11:32:19 PM

    Kinda weird to hear Ken say that IBM doesn't hear that customers want Notes on Linux, given that originally IBM didn't think customers wanted Domino on Linux either - in an interview with him in 'Iris Today' (05/01/2001) Ken says Domino on Linux:

    '...was what we call a skunkworks project—a project that does not have approval really, but someone does it because they want to do it. ... When I would talk to people they would say “Oh, Linux we are never going to do that” and I thought, “Well, I don’t see why we can’t.” So in my spare time, I started porting the Domino code to Linux.'

    There is evident interest in there being a Notes client to run on Linux - it is the top-voted application at CodeWeavers (http://www.codeweavers.com/site/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=158

    It doesn't even look like IBM tried to have the ND6 clients built in a way that would enable them to run under WINE, when the R5 client could be made to run under WINE.

    Yet IBM sells Home Page Builder for Linux (http://www-134.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=-826&storeId=826&categoryId=2267410&langId=826&dualCurrId=20) - a Win32 app that they make sure runs under WINE. How much demand can there be for that? I'll bet most Win32 users have never heard of it, and neither have most Linux users.

    IBM do not appear to have any coherent strategy with regard to Linux:

    no demand for Domino on linux (2001),

    no demand for Notes on Linux (2004). But they will ensure a low-profile product no-one has ever heard of will run on Linux.

  1. 9  Neil  | 4/9/2004 5:11:54 AM

    Whilst I do a gree that a lot of interest is initially coming from techies, these people are to some extend decision makers. Linux is creaping into our environment, firstly on developers machines, then architecture..

    These people will drive decisions in the future.

    It would seem to me that a Notes client on Linux would fit with IBM's strategy.

    I have been in meetings where IBM has talked about the Workplace strategy, and highlighted the advantage that the new Workplace client will run on linux. If it is seen as an advantage for Workplace why not Notes.

    This question was put to them, but not really answered...

  1. 10  Heini  | 4/9/2004 5:59:58 AM

    If this is true, does it really make sense to build a native Linux client for V7 and throw it away for R8 ?

    The Eclipse based client makes sense, it opens the possibility to run on more than Linux and W32 (e.g. Mac).

    Quite funny that the Unix client died with R5 because IBM said it is not possible to build a rich client for all platforms.

    Heini

    BTW: 6.5.1 runs with Wine. It does not install but if you take a W32 install it works.

  1. 11  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 4/9/2004 7:19:30 AM

    "Quite funny that the Unix client died with R5 because IBM said it is not possible to build a rich client for all platforms. "

    That decision pre-dates my time on staff, but my understanding was that it was based on porting, support, market size rather than whether the R5 client could run on a UNIX workstation.

    The goal stated at Lotusphere is that the Eclipse-based client will run Notes applications with a goal of 100% fidelity in the "Notes 8" timeframe. So Heini is right that this is where the investment is and should go strategically.

  1. 12  Josef  | 4/9/2004 8:17:49 AM

    I very much appreciate that with 6.5.1 we are now entitled to run Quickplace server for instrant messaging but it is W32-only. We are a small company and I do not want to install our first Win server just for instant messging...

    Or am I wrong? Is there a quickplace server that runs on Linux? Wasn't able to find one.

  1. 13  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 4/9/2004 9:18:50 AM

  1. 14  Alan Lepofsky  | 4/9/2004 10:35:11 AM

    I think you mean "we are not entitled to run Sametime for instant messaging", not Quickplace.