CNET: User Exchanges - Its Good to Share

June 10 2004

A mention of the Lotus Developer Domain's sandbox....

IBM has offered its Sandbox site for many years, allowing customers using its Lotus office software to swap add-ons and customizations.
Craig Lordan, a lead developer for IBM's Lotus Workplace division, said the site started as a promotional vehicle but has turned into more of a community venue.
"It's a neat way to show how Lotus customers are doing things," he said. "A lot of the things there are offshoots from discussions between users" about what kind of new functionality they want. "They put something together and share it with everyone else," Lordan said. "We really want to encourage that kind of open-source feel."
Link: CNET: User Exchanges: It's good to share >

Ed Brill | Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Lotus  Add/View Comments [16]

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  1. 1  Nathan T. Freeman  | 6/10/2004 10:08:11 AM

    Does Craig Lordan have my phone number? I'm not trying to give Ed a hard time, (he's been a proponent, if anything) but what Notes/Domino open source efforts exist are in spite of IBM, not because of them. I spent YEARS trying to convince Lotus of that value.

  1. 2  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com/weblog/200406101642 | 6/10/2004 10:45:54 AM

    "After playing stroppy uncle with Bruce and Nathan in the early days (anyone remember notesoss.org?), it would appear that IBM are keen on re-writing history with regards open-source initiatives in the Lotus world. Craig Lordan has this to say about the LDD Sandbox..."

  1. 3  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/10/2004 11:13:43 AM

  1. 4  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.GeniiSoft.com/showcase.nsf/GeniiBlog | 6/10/2004 12:39:37 PM

    I have watched this whole process, been registered, if not terribly involved, with OpenNTF since before it was that, and read postings by Nathan for years before advocating open source Notes work, but I still think IBM has been very supportive of open source. Nathan's suggestions often seemed to suggest that IBM should host/support and follow an OSS model for templates. IBM has always provided every Notes template as open source. It has provided the Sandbox for a number of years. That said, I still think they don't need the hassle of an open source site driving template creation. OpenNTF can aned does create good software and templates, but the fact that IBM was both wary and careful about the particular effort does not negate their other efforts in OSS. OpenNTF is cool, but it is not the only game in town, and I have no idea whether there have been more downloads from the Sandbox or from OpenNTF, for example. Give it a rest!

  1. 5  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com | 6/10/2004 1:07:37 PM

    ... open-source is more than just offering templates. It's about community, shared development / project management, and so on.

    Now, Lotus have fostered community amazingly well in the LDD forums; I would not class the Sandbox as some kind of beacon for community effort as Craig does in the c|net piece.

    OpenNTF on the other hand follows the "traditional" OSS model far more than the Sandbox does (that's not a criticism, I'm just saying the two sites are very different).

    My beef is that whilst IBM have been very active in the OSS space generally, they haven't been very receptive to such movements within the Notes / Domino world. That's changing of course (cf. use of DomBulletin in the LS Online site and so forth), but if we're talking about sharing / users / exchange of ideas, there's a much bigger picture than is painted in the c|net article.

  1. 6  Michael Braly http://www.michaelbraly.com | 6/10/2004 1:12:36 PM

    I have to respectively agree with Nathan on this one when discussing the perception that Lotus/IBM has supported an Open Source movement. I'm not sure how much hosting, hardware or software is provided to OpenNTF by Lotus/IBM, but the notesoss naming incident made me think that IBM didn't really support the movement.

    Perhaps the Lotus/IBM guy did give a quote about OpenNTF, but it just didn't make it into the story? Let's have someone from Lotus/IBM ask him.

  1. 7  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/10/2004 3:26:47 PM

    I believe Lotus does support the OpenNTF effort. While it's not with licenses, hardware etc. it's through other venues. Granted OpenNTF isn't the only game in town like Ben L. states. I do believe however that OpenNTF has made a major impact within the Lotus community and has helped foster a better Sandbox.

  1. 8  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 6/10/2004 4:50:41 PM

    While I think that OpenNTF.org has had a HUGE impact on the Notes/Domino community, I think the sandbox is a beast on its own. When I talk with customers, many many more of them know about the sandbox vs OpenNTF. That repository really has had its own's lifecycle. And I am not sure that an IBM supported OSS effort/site would produce what OpenNTF does .. I think having some distance promotes development. So I can see where Craig and the article are going, and at the same time, can also say that OpenNTF is probably a top 10 best thing to ever happen to the N/D community

  1. 9  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/10/2004 5:03:16 PM

  1. 10  Christopher Byrne http://www.thecayugagroup.com/ | 6/11/2004 12:22:55 PM

    The Sandbox has always been a visible part of Notes.net/LDD, but has never been about "Open Source". It has been about people posting samples/solutions. Very rarely has it been in the vain of collaborative development as OpenNTF has been.

    IBM embracing Open Source? As long as the see a potential revenue stream coming from it (as any other company would).

  1. 11  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/11/2004 1:28:56 PM

    Chris,

    Hard to believe that "customers" in the case of the Sandbox are not "developers" or geeks as you call them.

    Bruce

  1. 12  Christopher Byrne http://www.thecayugagroup.com/ | 6/11/2004 1:44:23 PM

    I perhaps mistakenly used "customer' in the broadest sense. If you look at who most of the users are of openNTF, it is likely they know about it because of a Business Partner or some othr higher level connection than the average "technical geek/developer" customer that comes to LDD. They know about the Sandbox because it is an integrated part of the site. But it is not likely they will know of openNTF as there is no link to it from that site.

  1. 13  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/11/2004 3:36:27 PM

  1. 14  Laura M  | 6/11/2004 11:34:19 PM

    I don't wish to sound too critical, however the OpenNTF web site is very confusing to me. The projects I see have little or no documentation, and I get lost in the navigation. There's really no "welcome" screen that provides good information on each project. Pictures and diagrams are best. What does the application do for me? What does it look like? It seems common for new Open Source projects to have little documentation (not just OpenNTF). Why is that?

  1. 15  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 6/12/2004 9:29:14 AM

    The OpenNTF site does need a lot of work and we trying very hard to develop the UI and features "when" we can. While the Notes/Domino community downloads lots of OpenNTF applications there are not many people who want to help maintain and develop the site itself.

    In the way of documentation and graphics, I believe the OpenNTF provides more info on the downloads then those found in the Lotus Sandbox. If you require more documentation post a note in the Main Bar or in the project discussion. I am confident you will get a repsonse.

    I do field at lest 5 emails a day from users who require assistance or are providing feedback. Please feel free to email me your questions/comments/suggestions.

    Vince, Anil and myself are currently working on some new ideas for the site. Thank you for your constructive feedback.

  1. 16  Anil Vartak www.openntf.org | 6/12/2004 10:32:22 AM

    Remember that although we provide the means to share a project, OpenNTF is a site that depends heavily on the contributors to projects. We've tried to tell project owners to make sure they provide enough project information/description as well as more docs when they release templates, but you always have some that don't. We monitor all the projects, but we don't come down on them with a heavy hand if they don't follow the guidelines..maybe someday when we have a lot of spare time we will :-)