Ed Brill

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1. 1  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 3/6/2008 9:38:43 AM

   Funny... Notes / Domino is the solution that has a roadmap, as publicly seen and discussed at Lotusphere.

   Mind you, now we can say the same of another solution... but nothing anyone could really plan for... { Link }

   That competitor who spreads FUD, I think they ought to set themselves up as a Lotus Business Partner - after all, they seem to spend a lot of time talking about the Lotus products and apparently know what's going on inside the Lotus labs better than anyone.

   Now excuse me while I go set up a company that manages migrations of e-mail systems to a SQL Server back-end. My ship is about to come in (well, after an undetermined period of time).

1. 2  Flemming Riis  | 3/6/2008 9:55:28 AM

   -Now excuse me while I go set up a company that manages migrations of e-mail systems to a SQL Server back-end

   I know some system/i people that could use a copy :)

1. 3  Gary  | 3/6/2008 9:59:18 AM

   Multi-million dollar marketing budget for end-user awareness? Where is that happening? The only thing I ever see is those really high level IBM only advertisements that mention nothing but how great it is to use IBM (I agree but there is no mention of Lotus or any other IBM brand).

   Has the end-user awareness just not started yet or is it running somewhere where the end users hang out and I somehow missed it?

1. 4  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/6/2008 10:01:49 AM

   Gary, it's running in Europe now more than the US. Try { Link } ... that is the landing page for these online advertisements.

1. 5  Kevin  | 3/6/2008 10:10:38 AM

   @2 - lol how silly.

   The thing with the adverts is that the EMEA/AP markets for Lotus are much better than they are in the US as far as I can tell.

   We need more of the product exposure in the US than elsewhere I think.

   I'll toss this out too. There were plenty of IBMers who spread enough FUD about the product to make things go down hill. Sure it wasn't official but that didn't matter.

   However, that's in the past and we're looking at a killer product line today that really can compete at any level with any other vendor.

1. 6  Gary  | 3/6/2008 10:14:03 AM

   Thanks Ed, those a pretty cool (the motorcycle crash cracked me up). Any idea when we'll see those push into the US market? At least once a month I deal with the "I thought Notes was dead" meme - usually as I sit on a plane and talk to my seat mates. I can tell they sometimes don't even really believe me because the only time they hear about Notes is when some random yahoo like me is going on about it. I even get OS/2 comparisons.

   Those advertisements would really help me move the conversation along since I won't have to explain the same things like those in Alan's list over and over and over again. Not to mention the help in getting them to realize I'm not just raving on about some technology IBM left for dead in the 90's.

1. 7  Ian Scott  | 3/6/2008 10:51:39 AM

   Mostly I get the 'Notes is dead' thing in the form of a question as in 'Is Notes not dead?'. The rest of the time it's 'I thought Notes was dead'. They both sound like the same mental process to me and that is something like 'I don't know anything about it but I'll say something anyway'.

   I know fewer and fewer people watch TV these days but I still believe advertising there is effective at promoting awareness of a product and thus reducing the propensity for those kind of statements because viwers assume millions of other people saw it and a dead product can't be getting advertised on TV.

   Any plans for TV adverts?

   Meantime, I concur that Alan's blog entry is a great way of responding to FUD. Hopefully it will rank highly in Google searches conducted by people who want to establish their own facts.

1. 8  Ian Smith http://Teamstudio.com | 3/6/2008 11:20:35 AM

   I can tell you from the Application Development point of you, we are having quality and lucrative conversations around risk, compliance and governance with large portions of our 3000 customers.Notes as an effective RAD platform with some help from key vendors of course is pushing its way onto the CIO agenda.The Lotus Sales talk on Tuesday needs to be inwardly digested by all members of the community and blogged about incessantly. That'll help to burst the FUD bubble.

1. 9  Richard Schwartz http://www.poweroftheschwartz.com | 3/6/2008 2:04:37 PM

   re "that's never been said ever in 18+ years by anyone at IBM"

   That may not quite be true. It's certainly never been said by anyone in authority, so it's certainly a true statement when you add that caveat, but I do recall some isolated incidents having been reported a few years back. (So glad those days are over!)

1. 10  Erik Brooks  | 3/6/2008 5:41:54 PM

   "the most tangible and numeric ones are the number of developers working on Notes/Domino today, the budget we are investing in R&D..."

   Where can one view those numbers?

1. 11  Brian Vincent  | 3/6/2008 5:49:06 PM

   At a conference last week I was demonstrating a new notes application to be used by various field offices. At the end of the presentation one of the attendees asked "But isn't Lotus Notes going away." *ARUGH!*

   The rumors of Notes impending death appear to exist at all levels. Executives think IBM is killing it. Everyday corporate users think their management is getting rid of it.

   Will someone put some video on the 6 o'clock news of Notes alive, well, and tap dancing to boot !?

1. 12  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/6/2008 7:25:45 PM

   @10 - At Lotusphere.

1. 13  Marco Foellmer http://www.ebf.de | 3/6/2008 11:18:17 PM

   IBM please support the iPhone. I see customers moving because of this device.

   ciao marco

1. 14  Marco Foellmer http://www.ebf.de | 3/6/2008 11:38:30 PM

   I really like to see :

   Traveler for iPhone in 8.5.0

   Sametime for iPhone

   Quickr Connector for Iphone

   Lotus Connections for iPhone

   Lotus Symphony for iPhone

   from IBM.

1. 15  Dave Madison  | 3/7/2008 12:46:09 AM

   "Geez, that's never been said ever in 18+ years by anyone at IBM, so how does anyone credibly even consider such a thought?"

   Well, maybe not "discontinued" but there were plenty of people at IBM that were sending a confusing message about the future of Notes as people knew it. Namely the strategery to move the back end to DB2.

   { Link }

   { Link }

   { Link }

   (What happened to all those "smart people" working on that, Ed?)

   and, it seems Mr. Mills caused quite a lot of headaches over his statements that IBM "was throwing the whole thing out" when talking about NSF being old and planned to be replaced by DB2.

   So, while IBM may have finally realized that it was the client that needed to be revamped and it was too much work to convert NSF to DB@, and that Workplace thing was the most confusing product and marketing strategy ever to come out in a long time, it can "technically" be said that no one at IBM ever uttered the words "Notes is being discontinued", for quite a while there IBM sent enough messages for users to draw their own conclusions. You at least have to concede the message was very confused for a number of years.

1. 16  Sannie  | 3/7/2008 6:21:28 AM

   re "that's never been said ever in 18+ years by anyone at IBM"

   Unfortunately we see a silly Microsoft hype in the Netherlands. Mainly this is caused by some statements IBM in the Netherlands made a few years ago. They did say Lotus Notes will disappear.

   Now days we see a decreasing market and IBM is putting to little effort in existing customers to keep them on Domino. IBM is also telling customers that domino will be replaced by portal.

   I don't see any competitive wins in the Netherlands......only a few big losses. Despite all the good work IBM is doing on the product.....we don't see any results yet.

   My advise to IBM is to copy the good things from microsoft, although there is only one. Copy their marketing strategy and run campains based on domino world wide!. We see very little advertisements over here. for domino 8 only one radio commercial refering to an ASP site (how low can you go)...{ Link }

1. 17  NeilT  | 3/7/2008 6:44:59 AM

   ED, if I were in your place I wouldn't be thinking about how good Alan's response was. I'd be thinking about Why it was necessary in the first place.

   As you say, you have new product, new features, new pretty much everything. A develpoment and R&D commitment not seen in a long time if ever. An extended marketing budget and program plsu you personally are running Lotusphere comes to you all over the world. And yet:

   One of you "Customers" needs to be convinced that you are committed.

   Personally I'd want to review that marketing strategy and find out why it's not getting through to key decision makers.

   Whilst you are doing that, I'd make sure you think up a really good reason why all that Web 2.0 stuff in connections is NOT running on Domino.

1. 18  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/7/2008 7:41:02 AM

   "IBM is also telling customers that domino will be replaced by portal."

   Please provide Ed the name of the individual(s) who said that.

1. 19  Bill Geimer  | 3/7/2008 8:24:33 AM

   If you ever needed to see an example of how important FUD can be in a conflict, think back to the 2004 presidential race, or more to the point for you Ed, leave the television on for 20 minutes to a local channel home and see how many completely ludicrous claims are made in the Foster v. Oberweiss Congressional race. Almost no truth at all. Yet it will be the basis for a good portion of the vote. @17 - good point. Sad but true.

1. 20  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/7/2008 8:50:32 AM

   @16/18 - right, please do, offline of course. There IS NO REPLACEMENT strategy and I'm sure that's clear to readers of this blog.

   @17 I'll be provocative and say that I do not think it matters what our marketing strategy is. I have been here 14 years and worked with Notes from the beginning. Short of spending -IBM-'s (or at least IBM Software)'s ENTIRE marketing budget on a Notes awareness campaign, we always have ended up in a position of defense. I think there is awareness of this all the way up to the Rhodin level. We work the best we can through this.

   @19 I have been very tempted to write a long blog entry about how "going negative" seems to be a successful tactic in business as well as politics, and how sad that is for humanity. I do not understand what will lead a salesperson for a competitor to lie, distort, or insinuate baseless, clearly inaccurate information, but then again I don't understand the humanity behind criminal minds or Hillary Clinton's political campaign.

   I don't live in the area where Oberweis is campaigning but yes, I've seen those ads, and it continuously validates that I will buy milk and ice cream elsewhere (for nonChicago readers, a rich businessman who owns a dairy and ice cream business is running in his third or fourth self-funded race despite having no real qualifications to be in politics, and a propensity to lie. Can't figure out how he built his business in the first place, or why anyone would want to work for him).

1. 21  Gary  | 3/7/2008 8:59:08 AM

   @17 - good point Neil. There is more *everything* being poured into Notes/Domino right now than I've seen in the 13+ years I've been working with the product. I keep telling my customers that it's a great time to be with Lotus and see the desire to believe in their eyes but the 'dark years' of 2000 - 2006 still resonate (BTW, ask any Notes/Domino guy what the 'dark years' are and they know - that's a lot of momentum to overcome). Lists like Alan's are great but lists on a blog, even from someone as well respected as Ed and Alan, are just lists on a blog. Lotus needs something more tangible.

   IBM treats Lotus products like the girlfriend everyone dislikes; they only go out where they hope nobody will see them.

1. 22  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/7/2008 12:02:24 PM

   @20 Ed, be very careful. I live in the district that Denny Hastert retired from ... and will get to vote tomorrow. There are lies on both sides, and by many parties.

   Knowing many people who work for Oberweis Diary and Asset Management, they really enjoy working for him and the family. Sorry man, but you crossed the lines we agreed to a long time ago ...

1. 23  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/7/2008 2:35:07 PM

   "… despite having no real qualifications to be in politics, and a propensity to lie"

   Is that not somewhat of an oxymoron? Surely the latter point means the person in question is *eminently qualified* to be a politician?

1. 24  Brett Hershberger  | 3/7/2008 3:53:39 PM

   OMG LOL@21!

   Why why oh why, do we see ad after ad for MS products and narry a peep about R8 in the marketing space? I'm sorry Ed but if IBM is marketing it, then, like Gary said... they must be doing it where no one is looking. The folks out here in the trenches are still constantly battling against the "isn't Notes dead" opinions.

   Bring back the killer ad campaign like R5's "I am Superman" and Dennis Leary's awesome TV spots PLEASE!!

   R8 is so fantastic why doesn't the world know about it? Preaching to the choir at Lotusphere is just not helpful sorry. It needs to be out there in public spaces, bus stops, trains, commercials during the nightly news etc. Trade magazine ads wont do it either! IT folks already know about it. We need to get to regular people, the ones who think it's "dead" so they have mindshare for Lotus products, NOT the other guy's. Those "clear your desktop" ads are great! Put 'em on the telly! Here's another issue... IBM/Lotus needs to SHOW the new interface in all the ads, it's the only way people will believe it is new and improved. Telling people it's cool won't work, they need to SEE how radically different it is.

1. 25  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/7/2008 5:38:18 PM

   @John, yes I did, but if you think that campaign is at all a positive for your district or for America, it isn't. I think congressmen are held to higher standards, at least judging by my Washington interaction this week. I note you had no comment on my similar characterization of Hillary :-)

   Brett, I guess I didn't make it clear. What would a couple of ads on television do except make the same faithful feel good? No research we've done says otherwise, especially in the global economy (like, what market would TV matter?). Microsoft advertises for office because it is a $20 billion business with more than 90% gross profit. Apple is likewise a much bigger business.

   When you are those TV adverts *specifically* for SharePoint or for exchange, let me know.

1. 26  Richard Schwartz http://www.poweroftheschwartz.com | 3/7/2008 9:13:47 PM

   @20 Ed: I have no doubt that awareness goes up to Rhodin's level. But it ought to go a level or two higher -- to whatever level it is where decisions are made about such things as cross-brand strategic marketing themes and allocation of marketing resources.

1. 27  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/7/2008 10:19:03 PM

   that's a fair point, though I still am not sure that the IBM corporation as a whole doesn't have just as many other stories from other brands and parts of the organization. That is the challenge of a portfolio business.

   To your point about who knows, though, John Dunderdale made it pretty clear to me last night that the conversation goes all the way up to Palmisano, and that it has already helped in areas like the decision to give away Symphony.

1. 28  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/7/2008 11:59:24 PM

   @25 "would a couple of ads on television do except make the same faithful feel good?"

   Sure. iPhones only sell to the Mac faithful. iPods are only bought by Apple fanboys. No one's broken into a 900 million item marketplace with prime time adverts.

   Oh.... except... Apple.

   "No research we've done says otherwise, especially in the global economy (like, what market would TV matter?)."

   WTF!??!?! Do you WATCH television!??!?!?!

   "Microsoft advertises for office because it is a $20 billion business with more than 90% gross profit."

   And Lotus *isn't* 90% gross profit? Perhaps that's because the raw revenue numbers just aren't large enough. Maybe -- just maybe -- if you brought them up by an order of magnitude, then the margins would reflect that.

   I know that's crazy-talk -- that a line of business might ever have over 60% margins -- but it's possible IBM might emerge from the 70s. Like I said.... crazy-talk.

   I mean, what's the argument against more ads? That $1 spent on public advertising only yields $5 in revenue instead of $10? That's retarded.

   And yes, I said that on purpose.

   "Apple is likewise a much bigger business."

   Bigger than what? IBM? No they're not. And you know it. They're bigger in perception. You know why? Prime time advertising. *DING!*

   Do we (the Yellow community) really have to go start recording ads for Notes with "one-two-three-four... tell me that you love me more" as the background music while someone clicks on a link in an email to an HR app!? Because I'll do it, if you'll book the TV time. But fire Olgivy first, because somebody else deserves that commission.

   Sorry if I'm harsh, but frankly, this is the silliest response IBM has offered in 5 years. I don't give a rat's patootie if you stay positive or go negative or saturate the planet with advertising. Marketing needs one phrase tattooed on their foreheads -- backwards so they see it in the mirror -- "AIR SUPPORT." Not "cover." "Support."

   Man... I probably went overboard at 1am on a Friday night, but this thread makes me MAD.

1. 29  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/8/2008 12:32:52 AM

   Again, sorry in advance, but I'm still reeling over this...

   "No research we've done says otherwise, especially in the global economy (like, what market would TV matter?)."

   What research was that? The research where you ran a prime time TV ad campaign and US congressman stopped stating on the record that Notes was dead?

   No, probably not.

   So what research? Did you ASK CxO's whether they would be influenced by TV ads!?

   Guess what? THEY LIED.

   That's what people do when you ask them "are you influenced by advertising?" They LIE.

   Please bear that simple psychological truth in mind in future research.

1. 30  Dave Madison  | 3/8/2008 1:04:19 AM

   @28). With all due respect, Ed, I gotta go with Nathan here. It's not the television ad itself, it's where is it placed. A Lotus ad during "The Simpsons"? Probably not a good media buy. A Notes ad during "Lost", possibly better, but not quite. During the Super Bowl? A complete waste of money. Sponsor a NASCAR? Not likely your decision maker target market. (now, F1 racing would be a different story) But a Lotus ad during The Masters, the U.S. Open, the British Open..now that would reach your target market. (avg income of golf viewers $600,000..AVERAGE) Because I'm sure you well know who watches golf. There's a reason Mickleson wears a BearingPoint and KPMG visor. Accenture sponsors Tiger, And companies like Lehman, PriceCoopersWaterhouse, Microsoft (and yes IBM, but the high in servers and services) sponsor golf tournaments.

1. 31  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/8/2008 1:55:55 AM

   Wait... crap.. Dave Madison agreed with me? Then I take it all back. Every bit of it. 100%.

   In fact, I'm leaning back from the screen as I type this.

1. 32  Bill Malchisky http://www.EffectiveSoftware.com | 3/8/2008 2:18:47 AM

   Pre-flight insomnia...so here goes.

   @28/29 :: Bravo. With all due respect to Ed, IBM, and their Lotus brand...after six years of pounding home the point, my uncle a top principal for years finally gets that "Lotus" is not "1-2-3" any more. Why? He's never heard of Lotus Notes in the education system or seen ads in their trade journals (his words). He does know about MS Products though; to be fair many of them are not competitors of Lotus; yet he knows this despite my customizing a Linux desktop which he used for the past nine years and just migrated to an iMac--which he loves, so he uses zero MS software at home.

   Point here is that key decision makers know not of Lotus products and they should. The brand is not advertised. A lot of companies are on R5 and moving to Exchange. IMHO---which I admit could be conjecture here---is that some are still bent by the early 00's "Two-lane highway" approach and held-off. After years of frustration, they went with the cool interface that everyone uses at home--Outlook. It is still my opinion that there are a lot of R5 shops out there b/c they bought Lotus b/c of the ads...didn't see them anymore and stayed where they are...thinking Notes is dead (of course there are a myriad of reasons why companies stay behind the upgrade curve).

   @30 Excellent. Dead-on accurate. And make sure the new front-end is a focus of the ads, showcasing what hooks to document management, social networking, and your other collaboration products exist.

   Over the years I've seen some great concept ads at LS...one that comes to mind is a thunderous and powerful mantra provided via Japanese drummers pounding simultaneously on a two-head drums--with fast-paced Lotus shots throughout. Held in high-regard as a great ad by my colleagues who saw it. Did it ever go live? Motivating the attendees is key; no argument there. But unless the prospects are warmed-up, we'll always be going in cold.

   Final point...I just did an R5 to ND8 upgrade. Everything is in check. Went well. As I'm leaving the CIO mentions to a direct report that they're on-track for their Sharepoint implementation. He had no idea that Lotus offers a competing product. We're going to be talking about this soon. Had I not heard the remark, we would have been to late with the follow-up proposal.

   You have a great product line Ed. I am happy to be a partner. But the advertising makes the partner's job easier as we would enjoy more warm and luke warm prospects/conversations with potential clients than always having to cold-sell the solution. In this sense, everyone wins, as we'll be able to sell more products per unit time, to more shops, with a warmed-up market place.

   Have a great weekend.

1. 33  Rob McDonagh http://www.CaptainOblivious.com | 3/8/2008 3:02:25 AM

   @31 ROTFLMAO

   [yep, had the same reaction...]

1. 34  Ian Scott  | 3/8/2008 8:14:16 AM

   I mentioned TV earlier (and before Dave Madison) and in comments elsewhere on this blog I went on about how sales of Guinness stout are declining despite TV ads that are second to none.

   My point with the latter is that clearly the money Guinness spends on TV advertising is not translating into increased sales but since no-one, apart from people who are associated with the product or who read the financial press, thinks Guinness stout is dying or relatively unpopular is asking if it's on the way out, I maintain this is because Guinness TV ads keep the product alive in the public consciousness.

   I have no evidence for this but I do believe that especially with a product like Notes TV advertising is not going to translate into sales. I have no difficulty believing that spending the marketing budget for Notes elsewhere probably does yield a higher translation into sales and I can't and won't argue that IBM is wrong to make decisions using such metrics (indeed IBM can count the click throughs which is a good thing) but the power of television is that - especially if the advertisement is memorable like 'clear your desktop' - it reaches into the privacy of people's homes and that is millions of people simultaneously and conveys the impression that something is happening even if that impression is misplaced.

   Going off on a tangent here but last week there was an announcement where I work about a strategic partnership having been formed that will deliver a new contact centre desktop that......well, a few days ago I saw the entry on the CA blog about VoIP-Telephony Notes 8 integration. I emailed the link to my director who later came to see me and told me that if only we had been aware of this previously we might have saved a lot of money. The thing we are buying is Eclipse based and the project team being assembled for it is sizeable. The decision wasn't made by my director but I pursued the matter in terms of how and what I can do - and I am the only full time Notes resource here - such that Notes - something we already have installed on every desktop and laptop - will at least be looked at and considered as a solution for these kind of things in the future. I've come away from that with a couple of suggestions and my director is going to try and open some doors for me but it is too late in this case and I have a sinking feeling that now that we have strategic partnership it will henceforth be used for all mashup applications here. My aggravation and disappointment is not so much that we're not going to use Notes but that it was never even investigated or considered as an option.

   I can't help but feel that adverts on buses and bus stops and in railway stations and on billboards that used the word 'mashup' might just have reached one or two people who were involved in the decision and compelled them to ask 'can we not use Notes?' when the buzzwords cropped up.

   Had Notes been considered on such a basis and had the decision makers been asked why Notes was considered as an option I can just about guarantee they would NEVER have said it was because they saw it on a billboard and would instead have given a professional answer in terms of the capabilities offered by Notes etc.

   To get back on point, there MUST be an opportunity cost associated with not runnning TV and billboard advertising etc. even if it cannot be quantified. I think what people here who want to see such mass marketing are seeking is a reversal of the perception that Notes is dead. I'm sure IBM could do a lot with a high concept 3 minute advertisement in a cinema that can also be edited down into a 30 second TV ad.

   Perhaps the question should be, 'Can IBM afford not to run these kind of mass marketing ads for Lotus Notes and Domino?'.

1. 35  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/8/2008 9:29:22 AM

   I promised my wife that I would stay off the computer this weekend. So I can't and won't write the lengthy response that these comments deserve. What I will point out is that all, bar Mr. Madison, are thinking with a consumer product mindset -- something an end-user can walk into a store, buy, and immediately gain value from. That's not Notes, folks.

   As for the image advertising during golf games or whatever, I agree there is some incremental value. IBM has chosen to make the investment in IBM as a brand, not Lotus as an individual product brand. Given that Lotus is the human software brand for IBM, maybe that isn't a right decision. But it has been the decision for nine years, since the last time Lotus chose to waste a lot of money on image advertising that felt good and did nothing for sales.

   I'll be back with more thoughts on Monday.

1. 36  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/8/2008 10:04:39 AM

   "thinking with a consumer product mindset "

   Ever seen ads for UPS on TV? FedEx? American Express? Fidelity Investments? DuPont? Levitra?

   These aren't all consumer products I can just walk in a store and pick up, are they? Yet they have incredibly successful campaigns.

1. 37  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/8/2008 10:08:03 AM

   Every one of them is something you can use individually.

1. 38  Ian Scott  | 3/8/2008 11:04:12 AM

   I have long realised and very much accept that Notes is not a consumer product or a product for individual use and that consequently targeting such an audience with advertising is liable to produce no return.

   I think what vexes us is that the 'Notes is dead' line we are all persistently confronted with is said by people who have that consumer product mindset and that we are attempting to counter on their ground. They use Outlook at home and thus view email as a consumer item.

   My response has always been to bring the server into it, trot out the apples and oranges argument, and highlight Exchange's significant shortcomings but, you know, it gets tiring.

1. 39  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/8/2008 6:37:34 PM

   @37 - Ed, UPS and FedEx both run major primetime campaigns for business shipping. Accenture runs TV spots during sporting events. Heck, IBM spends millions on advertising blade servers.

   Why does IBM brand market hardware, which typically has a 60-70% marginal cost of sale, but doesn't brand market software, which has 0 marginal cost of sale? How does that make sense?

   @38 - Ian, of course it would get a return. How many Notes upgrades have to be sold to cover the cost of a few TV spots? There is no cost of sale to a software license.

   Ed, this about to get a lot more important with the advent of Foundations and Bluehouse. Those platforms are SMB-targeted. And they will fail catastrophically without broad public awareness. IBM is going to need to run TV spots to make those product lines work. And I don't know what you're going to show on a TV ad about Foundations if it's not Notes 8.

   You have to do it. You already committed to pursuing a smaller, more consumer-level scale of business. So Lotus will have no choice but to finally deliver what your partners have been begging for since the days of "I am."

1. 40  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/8/2008 8:53:36 PM

   Because of course, TV advertising is how LinkedIn, Salesforce.com, Plaxo, and <cough> Google have become so successful in SMB.

   And if there is no cost of sale to a software license, I must be working for free, right?

1. 41  Bill Malchisky http://www.EffectiveSoftware.com | 3/9/2008 12:28:27 AM

   Ed, I understand that Notes is not something that is going to be on a shelf in BestBuy or CompUSA (while they last). I saw it there years ago...it didn't last long. Seemed out of place, as it is truly a business product. No argument there.

   Advertising is necessary. As TV may not be the correct place, advertising needs to occur to get to the SMB and C-level mindsets. Most of my customers are small business and they go with MS by default. In fact, I have to educate them at to what Notes is long before I can make a sales pitch to either demo or migrate them. This becomes a very time-consuming process and makes the small opportunity get very expensive with a longer sales cycle through education-based sales (in the end, the customers thank you and go with the next guy--armed with your knowledge; if you don't educate them, you don't get the sale b/c they know not of your product). Occasionally, we break-through and get a Notes gig, but it's an uphill battle in the SMB.

   Something to consider, anyway. Nathan Freeman is spot-on with his passion in this arena--imho. YMMV, as always.

   p.s. Google, et al., all grew from advertising--be it word-of-mouth or web site ads, or connecting with businesses to prove they had either a niche (i.e. LinkedIN) or truly better product in an existing market (i.e. Google). But advertising they did...although not the same exactly product types, some things they did to grow work well in the Notes space, imho.

1. 42  Ian Scott  | 3/9/2008 6:50:45 AM

   @39 - Nathan, I fully accept your point about Foundations and Bluehouse and indeed the SMB market was in my mind when I was writing as I view this as an extension of the personal and consumer market. Exchange and Outlook has penetrated that market and I have no doubt it stems in large part from home use of Outlook - ie the personal/consumer space.

   I chose not to mention the SMB market partly because I felt sure someone else would but also because with the exception of Collaboration Express IBM has never really targeted that market and that, by reduction, Notes has essentially always been the big corporate sell meaning that advertising targeted at individuals is unlikely, in my opinion, to translate into significant sales there - or at least not the volume of sales that can be easily made to justify the kind of expense associated with TV adverting.

   In the example I gave of the call centre desktop there's much about it I simply can't talk about on line but what I probably can say is that where I work the budgets are held by the business units where a very small number of people decide what they want, go out and buy it and give ICT the job of implementing and supporting it. Those decision makers have clearly missed the Lotus marketing message.

   To reiterate I can't help but feel that if, while sitting in a traffic jam or walking through a railway station or standing at a bus stop or watching TV had those decision makers seen an advertisement featuring the 'clear your desktop' slogan or the word 'mashup' and the words 'Lotus Notes' they might have decided to consider Notes.

   Heck, the situation as I understand it is that it is a requirement of this Eclipse based desktop that email be surfaced in it. For people who are going to use it Notes email is to be surfaced in an Eclipse based desktop that is NOT Lotus Notes despite the fact that Notes is already on everyone's desk. I can just about guarantee that attempts by me to build R8 composite applications will founder along the lines that time and money has been spent on this other thing and that as a result it is the defacto standard. Sorry, I'm noised up about this desktop thing but it is clear IBM/Lotus marketing missed the people who made this decision and it is too late to do anything about it. As a dutiful employee I will do whatever I have to to make it work but I wish it wasn't so.

   Please correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it the version of Outlook that people used at home is a different technology from the one used in the offices and just about every version of Exchange is a different technology from the others yet the average non-IT person who has heard of them think they are one and the same. That is because Outlook is a brand and Exchange is a brand. I think Lotus Notes and Domino is or should be a brand and marketed as such. If they are not we might as well call them Workplace for all the difference it would make.

   I really do need convincing that there wasn't and isn't an opportunity cost (and opportunity lost) associated with not conducting mass marketing of Lotus Notes and Domino as a brand as much as for its incerdible capabilities.

1. 43  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/9/2008 9:53:45 AM

   Because of course, TV advertising is how LinkedIn, Salesforce.com, Plaxo, and <cough> Google have become so successful in SMB.

   Ed, you're getting sneaky now...

   1) Saying LinkedIn and Plaxo have been successful in actually selling something is questionable.

   2) Google does advertise on TV. They just get Apple to pay for it. See iPhone ads. But even so, I'm not certain you could call Google successful in the SMB market yet, either.

   3) Salesforce.com is obviously very successful in the SMB market, and they've obviously done so without broad-based advertising.

   But, sneaky you, now you've changed the subject 4 times...

   Earlier you asked what TV ads would accomplish besides making the faithful feel good. I replied to that broadbased exposure that generated public awareness would put Notes in contention for a class of solutions for which isn't not even considered today.

   Then you said your research showed that TV ads wouldn't accomplish anything. I replied that I didn't believe you'd actually conducted meaningful research.

   Then you said that TV ads are only important in the consumer space. I replied that there are lots of big TV campaigns to drive non-consumer products that are very successful.

   Then you said that all those products are available to individuals. I replied that not only is that not true (UPS business shipping, for instance) but that IBM's own existing advertising for stuff like hardware is clearly not geared to someone buying something for their home. And let me append to my reply that EVERY PRODUCT EVERYWHERE is evaluated, purchased and used by individuals. Human beings are only capable of individual actions. We are not the Borg. So the claim about individual focus is really rather moot.

   NOW you're claiming that other business have been successful in the SMB space without TV ads. Well, that's true enough. I never claimed that TV was the only path to success. I just claimed that not doing it is killing Lotus software. If you were a different company, you would be successful in a different way. But you aren't that company.

   And if there is no cost of sale to a software license, I must be working for free, right?

   An excellent point. The cost of the sales force is a cost of sale for software licenses.

   I know that, as a business partner, when we sell a license to a customer, we might make 1 or 2% if we're really lucky. I believe our "distributor" makes another 1 or 2% as well. I have no idea whether some chain of IBM sales people make additional money on that sale, but even if another 6% of the sale goes to compensating various sales people throughout the organization, you know what that comes to? 10%

   So, by my calculations, that means that the software should return a 90% margin. Which I believe was exactly your target number to compete effectively against Microsoft, wasn't it?

   a $20 billion business with more than 90% gross profit

   Look, I don't know why we're still going around and around about all this. The argument for broadbased public advertising for Lotus software is really, REALLY simple.

   Start running a major TV and print ad campaign for the individual products in the Lotus portfolio, stuff that actually SHOWS THE PRODUCT, and you will do two things:

   1) IBM will crush forever the "Notes is dead" meme, which survives in anyone's mind for the sole reason that unless your company uses Notes, there is no visibility for the product whatsoever.

   2) IBM will crush forever the "Notes UI sucks" meme, which survives in anyone's mind for the sole reason that unless you are reviewing Notes 8, you have never seen the new client, and your perception of the Notes interface is whatever is on your desk, which is likely Notes 6.5 with a couple of custom applications built by "Bob in Accounting" in 1998.

   Imagine never, ever hearing "Notes is going away" or "the Notes interface sucks" again. Can you even picture such a world? I've lived with that burden for so long, it is literally impossible for me to conceive of what our industry would be like without it.

   It would be a land of milk and honey, with rivers of gold flowing through huge valleys in which $100 bills sprout from the earth like grass, and huge trees grow in shaded meadows with all the branches of a Fortune 1000 org chart, raining purchase orders down on the ground every autumn. Happy users would frolic through the fields with picnic baskets filled with wireless laptops and pick Blackberries from briars without thorns, while choirs of angels sang out voice mail messages and children danced in perfectly choreographed games of Red Rover where somehow, no one ever lost.

   Yeah, that seems worth it.

1. 44  Duffbert http://www.duffbert.com | 3/9/2008 10:17:16 AM

   I was contemplating a short series on my blog about how/why I think Lotus needs to start advertising more, but I don't think I could top Nathan's comment there. It'd be a basic rehash with some jargon thrown in...

   I would propose a challenge... get "radical" (for IBM) and decide to advertise specific projects. Throw a flashy ad for ND8 and focus on email. Show the actual client. Give it a one month run on primetime TV (House, Simpsons, etc)

   Then see what your results are in the marketplace in terms of conversation and such. No, I don't expect you to be able to tie "Ad x to increase revenue y". But you can't tell me the IBM brand ads shown during golf shows have a direct correlation to sales of a specific item, either... It just reinforces the IBM brand name.

   And *that's* what we're looking for here... reinforce of the "IBM Lotus NOTES" brand name. Reinforce NOTES so that we don't play Notes is dead with Microsoft sales people. Let the 'softies answer the follow-up question... "But didn't I just see a cool ad for Notes last night on NCIS? Why would they be pushing a dead product?"

   Right now, *WE* are your defense for that tactic, and WE might not always be around to fight back...

1. 45  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/9/2008 10:34:51 AM

   OK, this was easier when my response was just to Nate's @44.

   I get that there is a need for brand aircover. I get that the Notes brand doesn't resonate in the consumer space. I get that "Notes is dead" is fueled by a lack of awareness.

   That still <> "you need to do TV advertising!"

   It may not even equal advertising. Awareness is built in many ways in the market. Advertising is just one. But let's put that aside, since I don't want to be accused of changing the subject.

   First, Nate, I didn't change the subject any of those times. I offered counter-examples or counterpoints to, mostly your, claims that there was "proof" in the market of success at doing what you were suggesting. I maintain that even UPS or FedEx *business* advertising is fundamentally different, since a five-person law office can make an individual decision to use UPS, while a similar decision to use Lotus Notes, or for that matter Microsoft Small Business Server, isn't something they just do by going to a website, putting in a credit card number, and off to the races. Now, you'll bring SaaS back into the equation and that is specifically why I used some SaaS/cloud-based examples later in the discussion. And if you don't think Google is already successful in SMB (at least more towards the "s" side), spend some time on the US west coast.

   Advertising, my friends, is a tricky business. IBM launched Notes 8 on September 18, 2007, with a full buyout of cnn.com. Every single ad on the website the whole day -- something like 30 million impressions -- was for Notes 8.

   { Link }

   With nothing personal towards the marketing people who worked hard to make this happen, it was pretty much a failure. How many of you saw any awareness of Notes 8 raised? 30 million impressions -- how many of those people saw the ad and thought, "oh, Notes, I thought it was dead, let me click through and check it out!" (Answer = very, very few). So, while those ads ran on banners on interesting sites like 43folders or Reuters for a few months, a better approach ("Clear your desktops") was created and is now at ibm.com/lotusnotes. That's running in Europe now.

   But the point is, if Nate or anyone else thinks that any amount of advertising of Notes 8 would kill these two thoughts in the market (Notes is dead and Notes sucks), sadly, I do not agree. And I'll open that up to more discussion tomorrow with a new topic.

1. 46  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/9/2008 10:59:12 AM

   Everyone here talks about TV and print advertising and you point out the failure of a web advertising campaign? But that's not changing the subject?

   As far as how a 5 person law office makes a decision, I have two questions:

   1) When was the last time you talked to a 5 person law office? You fly all over the planet to meet with IBM's largest enterprise customers. Do you feel connected to what's happening in the 5-user decision space? I would find that very surprising. (And I don't mean that as a slight on you, Ed... I think you are fantastic at your job.)

   2) What's the point of pulling a pizza box out of an envelope on stage and talking about magical SMB implementations if not to target that kind of instant gratification decision making? Why offer a turnkey appliance at all if the idea is anything other than "order this little box, hook it to a network, turn it on, and suddenly be productive?"

   And yes, I am very sad you do not agree that showing the Notes 8 client on TV would kill the "Notes UI sucks" meme. Because I can only think of two reasons why you would disagree: either you don't think people watch television; or you don't think people seeing the Notes 8 client in action would want to use it.

   Putting the Clear Your Desktops ads on TV wouldn't help change the "notes UI sucks" meme. You know why? Because you don't see the Notes 8 client in those ads. In fact, you don't see ANY software in those ads. Just like that UC2 ad.

   Quit telling. Start showing.

1. 47  Tim Tripcony http://www.timtripcony.com | 3/9/2008 12:28:15 PM

   @43 - Sounds like you're describing NE2: "Narnia Enterprise Edition".

   As for my take on the TV ad issue, I'd like to propose another approach (not instead of, but in addtion to): get some form of Notes on the consumer desktop. Now that various computer manufactures are offering models that ship with Linux pre-installed, every unit they ship that has vanilla OpenOffice and not Symphony (yes, I know, it's still beta) is a missed opportunity. Every time a user clicks the "Mail" icon on their Linux desktop and sees Thunderbird instead of "Notes Express 8", it's a missed opportunity. And that's just the Linux market... imagine if IBM could talk a manufacturer (gee, I dunno, maybe LENOVO?) into distributing a Windows image where a miniature Notes 8 is already configured as the default email client, and its embedded Symphony editors are already registered to handle Officey filetypes... everything they'd otherwise use Office for at home is already there, free of charge. Users will notice in a hurry that they don't need anything else.

   End users - "ordinary" consumers - will know Notes isn't dead if they go home every night and use it to check their email. They'll know the UI doesn't suck, because every time they update their resume, they see the new interface.

   Make no mistake, it took years for the iPod ads to really catch on, but once they did, "iPod" became the "Kleenex" of portable media devices... even if it's not an iPod, it's still an "iPod". Everybody started buying one (or several), which reminded people Apple was still around, which got more people buying Macs. Then the iPhone came out, and all the cool kids had to buy one. Suddenly we're seeing a resurgence of Macs in the enterprise, and enterprise solutions being developed to cater to iPhones. Fully consumer-targeted (and advertised) products, driving changes to the enterprise software market.

   Lotus needs an "LPod"... maybe not something as trendy, but at a minimum something that approaches that kind of consumer market penetration. IBM's giving Symphony away for free in the hopes that it'll reduce the number of Office licenses sold, which eats into the revenue that Microsoft would otherwise have to spend on bashing IBM. But the only way it'll get enough market share to have a truly significant impact is if it's already installed when a consumer buys a desktop or laptop. If tens of millions of end users notice that they didn't have to buy Office to be able to check their email or edit their "productivity documents" at home, especially if they find that the Lotus products they use at home are actually more enjoyable to use than the Microsoft equivalents they use at work, eventually decision makers are going to start hearing about that. And even at companies that are already using Notes, users that bask in the happiness that is Notes 8 at home and then show up to work and are stuck using version 6 (or even earlier) are eventually going to put so much pressure on their IT people to upgrade that they'll do what it takes to make that happen, and then the remaining folks who still haven't seen Notes 8 will get to experience it as well.

1. 48  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 3/9/2008 12:56:42 PM

   Tim, OpenOffice and Thunderbird are open source. Notes and Symphony are not. Remember: the open source community is not a marketing vehicle for big corporations, as much as they would like it.

1. 49  Tim Tripcony http://www.timtripcony.com | 3/9/2008 1:26:10 PM

   Adobe Reader isn't open source, yet there's a nice big button for it on my Asus Eee. There "has to be", because it's the de facto standard for PDF, even though there are now open source applications that read and write that format.

   So I can read PDF's on my Eee without having to purchase or even install additional software... but if I want to be able to edit (or create) them, I need something more. Depending on the nature of that need, my budget, and my awareness of what options are available, I may just install a print driver that allows me to print any content to a PDF file, or I may pony up for a full Adobe license. As a result, some might argue that Asus is marketing Adobe's software by pre-installing the free version... but until now I hadn't even given that any thought.

   Whatever the politics (if any) in the decision by Asus to include Reader, Adobe gained early market share by being the only provider of a free reader for PDF, so now some computer manufacturers just pre-install it because they know many of their customers will eventually need it (or something like it) anyway. I'm just suggesting IBM look into doing the same thing from the opposite end: since most consumers will at some point want to check email and edit "Word docs", pre-install something free that does that... and if they need something more (i.e. workflow applications at their day job), then they know what to ask for.

1. 50  Ian Scott  | 3/9/2008 2:49:53 PM

   WRT TV advertising in terms of raising brand awareness I think it really all depends on how good the adverts or series of adverts are. I'm not an expert judge but when I saw the 'clear your desktop' adverts my immediate reaction was "that would work as a prolonged series on TV". They get your attention; you want to see them again; you want to know what they are about.

   From that I can easily envisage a situation where the three guys in yellow overalls could become almost iconic with an ad appearing and people saying to themselves "it's those dudes again. I wonder what they're going to do this time". Bang. You've engaged the viewer for the next 25 seconds. All it takes then is 3 seconds at the end to punch the point home in capital letters. I have to wonder if the 'Superman' advert would have been more successful if 'Lotus Notes' had occupied as much screen space as 'R5'.

   I only say a couple of the Dennis Leary ads on TV but at the time lots of people were mentioning them to me. One example that sticks in my mind is me being introduced to someone socially and when they found out what I did for a living they said "It's not for kids is it?". When I asked how they knew that the response was that they'd seen an ad on TV the night before (Mikey Powers Letter). That ad might not have generated a sale but it positioned the product in someone's mind in a positive and persistent way. That person still knows that Notes is for serious business.

1. 51  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 3/9/2008 3:21:28 PM

   Tim, I understand why you want IBM to do that. However, mail and office are already nicely covered by open source, and Linux distros have nothing to gain.

1. 52  Rob Ingram  | 3/10/2008 12:33:20 PM

   Why does everyone on this blog community seem to have suddenly acquired an honorary a marketing or advertising degree. Do we all think we have the genes to instinctively know how to measure the benefits of TV advertising campaigns. We all like to claim we are marketing experts but in reality very few of us are - and only then when it comes to spending other people's Dollars and Euros. Last I heard, is it takes a small fortune to build a brand name of any product via advertising which is why you never see many TV ads for some well known brand names in the technology and business space.

   Lets stick to the facts based our own area of expertise - the technology - and leave advertising to those that spend their days figuring out how to get a message across cost effectively to a 'TARGET' audience.

   I'd welcome any advertising pro to jump in and educate us all, if any are even reading this debate!

1. 53  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2008 1:20:34 PM

   @52 - Wow, Rob. Argumentum ad verecundiam. :-( Didn't see that one coming.

   But hey, the ad pros seem to have done a bang-up job with Notes/Domino campaigns so far. They even managed to get the product mentioned in the Congressional Record!

   Oh... wait...

   By the way, last I checked, IBM had a market cap of 159 BILLION dollars, so I'm not really sure why they'd be concerned about a small fortune. In fact, Sam Palmisano stated in 2006 that he'd spend $300 million on an ad campaign targeted at Microsoft. { Link } Who at IBM produces everyday software that people actually use? Lotus. Who's brand was in that $300 million campaign?

   "People are confused, and that's why we are going into that campaign," Harreld, who also took control of marketing in January, said in an interview at IBM's Armonk, N.Y., headquarters. "We're really trying to get at this problem."

   Two years later, does it seem like there's less confusion?

   See, the great thing about advertising is that it's really easy to tell whether it's working. You just look around. The whole point of advertising is to create identity awareness, and every single one of us is a consumer or something in some way.

   It's a lot like talking about user experience in software. EVERYONE who uses the software has meaningful input to provide.

1. 54  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2008 1:29:13 PM

   Correction: "...a consumer OF something in some way."

1. 55  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2008 1:32:11 PM

   Nathan, there's no question that many of us in the trenches believe IBM's advertising is sometimes less-effective than we would hope for, like to see, or think happens. But the metrics often prove otherwise, at least in the "awareness" phase of marketing (which, likewise, is what the UC2 viral video is for, and that's for awareness for people who have traditionally focused on -telephony-).

   I am no fan of "What makes you special" and I have said that here before. And the article you link to is about that campaign, not some toe-to-toe with Redmond (and the interview doesn't exactly claim that it will be toe-to-toe on the -same topic-). But somewhere, the intended audience must be responding to it, because even IBM doesn't throw good money after bad in advertising.

   Everyone may have input, but not everyone knows the signal-to-noise ratio of that input. I was actually going to write a blog posting along a similar line to Mr. Ingram's comment, because when I studied advertising in college, I learned a lot about target market and audience. And that's why I brought up the cnn.com web advertising earlier. It's a good example, even if it wasn't "TV".

1. 56  Brett  | 3/10/2008 1:36:20 PM

   Rob and Ed hello? "Forest...Trees?"

   I think you might be just a little too close to the issue to truely see what's happening "in the trenches". Marketing degree's or not IBM/Lotus has not actually SHOWN the awesome R8 client in any advertising at all have you?

   In fact I don't think I have EVER seen a Notes client in an ad for ANY version.

   Trip is so right, bundle the Lotus products with Lenovo laptops for goodness sakes! Plus it would be a great excuse for an ad campaign, even if it is for a limited time. Heck maybe IBM can pay Dell or HP a few $$$ to do a bundle!

   You say Notes is not a consumer product, yet it tries to compete against another consumer product(Outlook). You can't play both games and win... oh right yes you can! (Outlook) But you do actually have to PLAY! Right now Lotus is not even playing, they are still sitting on the sidelines yelling "look at me... look at me" and not getting noticed.

   I've never heard so many excuses NOT to try in my life.

   C'mon guys get in there and play!!!

   Sorry to rant, but I love this product, it's my lifeblood, and has been for almost 15 years, but I'm really getting sick and tired of playing defense the whole time...

1. 57  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2008 1:44:50 PM

   Brett, I am sorry, there is a lot more to this than just understanding advertising. For example, you bring up Tim's Lenovo suggestion. What makes y'all think that IBM exerts that much influence around the halls of Lenovo anymore? They are a separate company. { Link } Dell and HP are similarly major Microsoft partners. "Pay to play" became part of the PC distribution vehicle a long time ago, and that costs a heck of a lot more than you might think.

   We love this product too -- I've been at Lotus almost 14 years, don't you think I (and Rob, and Alan, and everyone else on the inside) are as passionate as you are?

1. 58  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2008 1:51:21 PM

   @55 - Ed, that's two comments from IBM in a row about "target." So I'd like to clarify something...

   I will gladly acknowledge my vast ignorance as to whether IBM has been or is today successful at reaching it's TARGET. I have no idea if advertising and marketing in general are reaching that audience with 0 or 99% recognition. I couldn't possibly say. About that, you and the esteemed Rob Ingram are absolutely correct.

   What I'm really questioning is not the effectiveness of IBM's marketing at hitting their target. I'm questioning the wisdom of their target selection. If 100% of CIOs know that IBM offers a complete array of collaboration and productivity solutions that have no peer in the industry, does that lessen the problem that those CIOs face with the VAST pressure to migrate to some other platform because that's what their END-USERS know? Of course it doesn't.

   Information technology is not a top-down process anymore. Lotus knows this. You have all these great products that are driven by social synergies and are busy acknowledging the user experience from a technology standpoint for the first time in a decade. So why do you not acknowledge the user experience in marketing?

   By making the only priority target the "decision maker," IBM is defining their solution as top-down instead of bottom-up. If you think you can be successful in the social software and SMB space by carrying an authoritarian approach, then good luck. But that is not how your competition is delivering to market.

1. 59  Brett  | 3/10/2008 2:00:04 PM

   Alan, are you saying that IBM is broke? Are others able to "pay to play" yet IBM is not? Is there no marketing budget for Lotus?

   There is no doubt about our shared passion, but as seen in this topic, it seems that there is far too much "preaching to the choir" from IBM marketing. Not enough getting the word out to the masses.

   Others here have said it far better than I, but it does seem, from the outside, that not enough of the right kind of marketing is being done to counter the "Notes is dead" and "Notes sucks" folks. Otherwise why would we all be here talking about it?

1. 60  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/10/2008 2:02:58 PM

   @56: EH?!?

   "You say Notes is not a consumer product, yet it tries to compete against another consumer product(Outlook)."

   MS Outlook is a business product. MS Outlook Express is some numpty wee email program that has precisely one link to Outlook: name. Nothing else.

   Notes is not a consumer product. It's not a question of "saying it" -- it ISN'T. Bundling it with home machines would be pointless. Bundling it with Lenovos less so, I agree, given their target business market. But, like an Outlook client would be pretty useless without an Exchange server, a Notes client wouldn't really be shown in the best light without a Domino box to talk to, now would it?

1. 61  Brett  | 3/10/2008 2:26:27 PM

   @60, then how is it that Outlook is still viewed as a consumer product? It is viewed that way, and Notes is not viewed at all!

   Per Ed's blog today, IBM is stating that they want Symphony to compete directly against M$ Office. Last time I checked Office comes with Outlook (full not Express) so... whats the problem with bundling Notes Express (must pay for activation within 90 days or suchforth) with Symphony? Drop it on a "Corporate only" PC/Laptop bundle, and let it fly?

   I'm sorry I hear this kind of thing so many times "But they are cheating/they are a consumer products company and we are not" etc... yet at the same time wondering why Notes is not getting more "brainshare". Well... hmmm who actually USES Notes. I'm also pretty sure it's not just the CIO and they guy who approves "Blade servers purchases". It is the consumers!! Market to them, and market hard! Dennis Leary did it, IBM/Lotus can do it again! This time though it really IS cool, and maybe the ad campaign can go for more than two weeks (no idea how long the campaign really was, it just seemed v short).

   It all comes down to this...

   SHOW the product, and show it in action. Dont just talk about it.

   Cheers.

1. 62  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 3/10/2008 2:27:00 PM

   @59, I think you meant Ed, not Alan. (will the confusion never end!)

1. 63  Brett  | 3/10/2008 2:43:02 PM

   Yup, sorry Alan.

1. 64  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2008 3:11:38 PM

   @60 - Notes is not a consumer product. It's not a question of "saying it" -- it ISN'T.

   But it's USED by consumers. It's just used by consumers when they're in their offices.

   Software is not the exclusive province of home or office anymore. What percentage of workers in the industrialized world use a computer at work? What percentage use one at home? Is there a distinction between a USER and a CONSUMER for software?

   Personally, I don't care about having a "Notes Home Edition." (Even though I'll note that Kevin Cavanaugh has publically stated that he loves the idea.) But at the very least, consumers who are also users should have some level of brand awareness and appreciation, so they can get out of the mode of thinking "Notes is that miserable piece of software that they make me use at work and I hate."

   Remember, unless you're an evaluator at a large company, odds are that your user experience is the 6.5 client with an R5 mail template and some apps designed in the 90s. 100 million people use Notes everyday and have NO IDEA what it's supposed to look like when implemented properly.

   No one should be surprised that they complain about it, or think it's yesterday's news.

1. 65  Brett  | 3/10/2008 3:28:42 PM

   Thank you Nathan, v well put.

1. 66  Gary  | 3/10/2008 3:56:58 PM

   I agree with Ed 100% on how the advertising has not helped and how it's led to the belief that further ads will not help either is understandable and quite reasonable. My response to that is it seems that way because the advertising has been pretty bad so far. If we have a "multi-million dollar marketing budget for end-user awareness" and nobody sees it, did it make any noise?

   I loved the Superman campaign. The problem was nobody I know could ever figure out what was being sold until I told them. Of course, the very next words out of their mouth was "I thought Notes was dead". It was a really cool ad that nobody understood. Clearly that campaign was not going to cut it. The Leary ads were great too but they had the same problem. I'm a serious Notes fanboy and even I wasn't sure what Leary was selling.

   So I agree with Ed, the advertising done so far has been woefully ineffective and continuing to do it the same way will only make the faithful feel good. I think it's time to try a different campaign. Like others suggest, something that shows what we're talking about (the UI, how it's alive and not dead, etc). Take some of those multi-millions and get Notes woven into something - product placement on "The Office" for example. Dwight Schrute or Jim Halprin talking into the camera for 5 seconds about how Notes helped him make a paper sale would be gold (or tie it the failed web site they rolled out and get Lotus Services in on the action). Get a clever video on YouTube and try to create something viral (maybe hard to do but it can't be too terribly expensive - let the community develop and produce videos and offer a bounty for the "most viral" - $10,000 would get my camera rolling).

   TV alone is not the answer either. As has been suggested, billboards and other signage (maybe just proclaiming 'Lotus Notes Lives!") would help promote awareness that it's not dead. Little things in the scope of a multi-million dollar marketing campaign could be done to promote awareness.

1. 67  Rob Ingram  | 3/10/2008 5:15:59 PM

   @55 Nathan - thanks, nobody has ever called me 'esteemed' before :) Good that you talk to the targeting point because not all marketing is based on advertising but a broad mix of communications tools which vary by target audience. I agree we need and want more word of mouth on Notes 8 which will start to happen as the product rolls out and its put into the hands of more business users. I've seen fresh attitudes spread among IBM users (outside of Lotus core team) as they have started to use it. The best thing we can all do is encourage more people to use Notes 8 every day - not to reintroduce he political angle, but what if we could get an Obama style 'movement' going.

1. 68  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2008 10:16:53 PM

   @67 - "what if we could get an Obama style 'movement' going."

   Agreed wholeheartedly!

   Doesn't Obama have national TV ads, and a nationwide exposure right now? I'm pretty sure he does, kicked off from his speech at the 2004 DNC and the catch phrase "the audacity of hope." And, not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm pretty sure his message is not "to the rich executives in charge of America's corporations, I AM YOUR MAN. And to the rest of you, trust the people in charge." I'm thinking it's "to the people America, yes we can have change that works. We do not have to endure the status quo."

   Come to think of it, that sounds like a great mass appeal end-user targeted catch phrase, doesn't it!??!?

   Hmmmmmm, I wonder if any local IBM execs in the Chicago area have made a point of approaching the Senator's campaign? I wonder what an Obama White House might use for their email platform?

   At any rate, you're certainly esteemed in my eyes. It took me 15 minutes to decide whether to click "Send" on my response to you before! I'm worried I'll be off your Christmas list after this!

1. 69  Ian Scott  | 3/11/2008 3:39:04 AM

   I've found that the most succesful Notes implemetations are the ones where a strategic application is driven from the top down and augmented by the spread of smaller time and money saving business support applications that are driven from the bottom up and maybe only used by a dozen people. Notes may have been bought at a corporate level for the former but the latter makes a considerable contibution to its ongoing sale within the organisation and compels people to love their Lotus Notes to the extent that they'd scream blue murder if you tried to take it away from them.

   I see no reason why Lotus Notes advertising should not play to this which is to say that there is a place for corporate marketing but that it should be augmented by a more individual or consumer focused campaign: top down and bottom up.

   Sorry, but I've got a thing about billboards right now: a nice big one with lots of space around it and picture of a laptop on a white background with the Notes UI on the screen and at the right in a column it reads "See Lotus Notes Live.....". Or how about "Linux Mac Windows IBM"? Surely that would get people saying to themselves something like, "What? Why are they working together?" so underline the laptop image with ".....Lotus Notes......" to answer it. It just seems obvious to me. The hard and maybe the most expensive part is finding the right billboards.

1. 70  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/11/2008 9:39:48 AM

   Speaking of spending lots of money on questionable targets...

   { Link }

1. 71  Pedro Quaresma  | 3/11/2008 10:04:29 AM

   I'm no Marketing expert either but I believe that instead of trying to make a huge Marketing campaign/war, IBM could focus on just increasing awareness of the product for the "non-believers". This would mean to fight the perceptions that "Notes is dead" or that it has an "old and clunky interface".

   A small 10 sec TV ad, with a video of Notes 8 in action, with a strong catchphrase at the end like "Notes 8 - it's out there!" or "Notes 8 - we're ahead!" is my suggestion.

1. 72  NeilT  | 3/12/2008 8:00:00 AM

   Just a some additional comments here.

   @Nathan. Just to add fuel to the fire, I'm 100% in agreement with you. Another person you probably never expected to be in line with.

   @Ed, just because IBM is not particularly good at advertising does not mean they should stop. Just become better.

   I don't think anyone will deny that the "Intel Inside" advertising campaign created a level of awareness unparalleled in the IT industry. Intel went from Geek awareness to Coke awareness in 1 year. Regardless of the fact that no consumers could "touch" the actual product. But they could "Buy" anything with the logo on it.

   Intel based that advertising on the Pentium III processor stream. Vertical marketing from a manufacturer of a component. It was wildly successful. Yet everyone in the "informed" marketing arena was agreed, before they did it, that you could not market a Component of a PC like that.

   As for Notes-Lite? There is only one reason that there is Not a Notes-Lite. IBM doesn't want one!

   We may not all be advertising executives, but we see the end result of the campaigns. Personally I see one thing as true. The advert that gets in front of the people most frequently at most times is the product which is on everyone's lips. What is needed today, most of all IMO, for Notes, is the awareness in the eyes of Executives that it's alive, well and moving forward.

   We have a very clear example of what works in awareness communication today... "O Ba Ma". Now I'm not saying that's the way to communicate to executives, but at a grassroots level it's hard to ignore from any viewpoint.

   Oh and please, no more highbrow adverts that mean nothing and people can't associate with. If you want to crash motorcycles into desks, keep it for the Easter Eggs.....

   Something like "Lotus Notes 8, The Only tool you need to organise your life". Then followed by real world uses and short clips of the interface you have worked so hard on.

1. 73  Julian Woodward http://blog.woowar.com | 3/12/2008 12:24:25 PM

   Late to this debate, and thanks to Nathan @70 for the link to a post I wrote without reading or knowing of the existence of this discussion. (Honest!)

   So, in summary:

   I absolutely agree with the main points made on here: whatever 'marketing' IBM is doing (or thinks it's doing) for Lotus simply isn't working.

   A definition of madness: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". For the past too-many years NOT doing TV advertising or major sports placement clearly hasn't been working, so why not do something different and try it? Yes, it'll cost. But nowhere near as much as watching the entire Lotus brand continuing to disappear down the toilet of history.

   All the great strides in products that have been made, so quickly, since we came out of the 'dark years' are genuinely impressive and exciting. But it counts for nothing unless people generally have actually heard of Lotus and don't think it's dead.

   I'm sick of seeing BladeCenter ads on TV in the UK, and then hearing that "IBM doesn't do TV advertising". Does not compute. The true message behind that is that "IBM doesn't do TV advertising for the Lotus brand because ..."

   I know it's not really like this, but imagine ... (cue spacey music and dry ice) ... during all those years of underinvestment in Lotus, the money that would/should/could have been spent on marketing was, instead, squirrelled away in the IBM bank accounts, and is now being spent on a massive global brand awareness campaign to put Lotus (not just Notes) back in the forefront of people's minds so that when they think of a 'PC' they also think of 'Lotus'.

   As I say, it's not really like that, because the cash was actually all blown on the dreaded 'W' project (incidentally, in the UK we have our own ideas as to what the 'W' really stands for).

   Anyway ... yes, we're talking about a 5-fold or 10-fold or 50-fold increase in the Lotus marketing budget. Ouch. But if that's what it takes, surely it's still a good investment? 50 x not-very-much-at-all = some.

   I want to believe in a future for Lotus, I really do. But there is a SERIOUS issue out in the market (ignore the Fortune 500 for a few minutes - let's talk about the main part of the business market), with the persistent "Notes is dead and/or sucks" meme. IBM can at least TRY to solve that issue, but it's necessary to first acknowledge the magnitude of the problem, before understanding what the magnitude of the effort to solve that problem needs to be. Continuing to defend the indefensible is not the right way forward, however comfortable it might feel.

1. 74  Erik Brooks  | 3/12/2008 11:22:53 PM

   @12 - Ummm... case in point here -- can somebody provide numbers? Or do I tell all the CxOs that I know to "go to LotusSphere 2009" or "You should have gone to LotusSphere 2008?"

   As for all this discussion about advertising: it's definitely got to be about the end user. Outlook crawled its way up, just like all of the other MS products, from the end-user.

   The RIT program is a good start in the right direction. Lotus software needs to be put in the hands of university students. Eclipse-based development plus Dojo-based Web 2.0 frameworks are a great fit. This needs to continue.

   Is IBM's marketing working? Consider me:

   - SMB decision maker

   - Capital city (albeit with population ~300,000)

   I've been running Notes/Domino for nearly 10 years now. Do you know when was the first time I actually saw Notes 8 in action?

   Yesterday.

   Yes, I've seen screenshots on various blogs. Yes, I've seen the "Clear Your Desktop" videos -- from blogs. Guess where I finally saw some *good*, clear video footage of Notes 8 in action? A blog.

   I breathe Notes/Domino. My entire company is built upon it. And yet I hadn't seen squat actually *showing* Notes 8 until yesterday, when I clicked on a video link from a blog.

   Am I a potential target for IBM TV marketing? Probably. I watch American Idol, Family Guy, American Dad, and some other shows. I see Bladeserver ads all the time.

   On a positive note, I did receive a call today from an IBM sales rep introducing himself and asking if I had seen Notes 8. That sort of phone call is something that has never happened before. It was also interesting to hear him promote the Lotus stuff *first* before talking about Websphere/DB2. Kudos to that initiative.

   Keep it up, Ed. "Go offense!" "Full court press" and all that. Hopefully we'll all be saying "heck yeah" in a year or two.

1. 75  David Racicot  | 3/13/2008 7:24:31 AM

   @72. Those Lotus ads were great.

1. 76  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/13/2008 8:04:18 AM

   @74 - Or do I tell all the CxOs that I know to "go to LotusSphere 2009" or "You should have gone to LotusSphere 2008?"

   "All" the CxOs? How many CxOs do you know that care how many developers are working on Notes?

1. 77  david racicot  | 3/13/2008 9:36:44 AM

   @76. Isn't there an executive path at Lotusphere?

1. 78  Erik Brooks  | 3/13/2008 3:43:42 PM

   @76 - Not many. But if I do some rough math based on that I can at least come up with approximate dollar figures.

   Or I can have somebody actually give/point/link/anything me numbers for...

   "...the budget we are investing in R&D..."

   or

   "...the multi-million dollar marketing budget for end-user awareness..."