eWeek: Microsoft continues to raid Lotus

August 10 2005

OK, there have been three articles like this in the US trade press in the last few days.  I was trying to hold my tongue, but it's hard to do in this case:

Anther[sic]  Lotus notable who has recently been approached by Microsoft is Ed Brill, business unit executive, Worldwide Lotus Messaging Sales, IBM Software Group, according to Brill's blog.
Correct.  But I don't appreciate the fact that my outright, and now public, rejection of those approaches was left out of the article.  Not everyone is wowed by the opportunity to move to Redmond.  Nor, though flattered, do I assume that good things are in store for me now that this is public ;)

Let's take a look at this further.  People move in and out of organizations all the time.  Many of the ex-Loti who have ended up at Microsoft were not recruited there from IBM/Lotus.  Julio Estrada left IBM to start his own company.  Many of the others cited in these articles, such as Gary Devendorf, Barry Briggs, even Cliff Reeves were not IBM employees when they were recruited to -- or chose to seek employment at -- Microsoft.  

Is it really a great surprise and big news that people who have left IBM software would seek another well-funded and wide-ranging software organization to work at?  And that they would choose Microsoft rather than someone like Oracle or SAP or Novell or whatever?

Now, the real amazing story is the one that isn't being told.  In the last few weeks, two high profile collaboration industry consultants, Bob Balaban and Rocky Oliver, have chosen to return to IBM software to work with Lotus and Workplace.  They believe strongly enough in where IBM is going to have completely changed their lifestyle and return to "corporate" America.  They both have tremendous respect in our industry.  Where are the headline stories about these two?

You know what else is good news?  Mike Rhodin is taking over as General Manager for the Lotus/Workplace Portal and Collaboration software team at IBM.  Why is that good news?  Because it's a strong endorsement that the Workplace strategy is the right one for IBM.  IBM did not see a need to bring someone from outside of the team in to lead the team's next steps forward.  In fact, IBM recognized that Ambuj Goyal did such a great job with Lotus, that he is ready to apply those same incredible talents and insights to another area of the business.  

Hey, there's more good news.  Thomas Gumz is still at IBM Lotus, having done some amazing work on Domino 7 web administration.  Thomas is just one of hundreds of dedicated, talented engineers who are weeks away from shipping the best version of Notes/Domino ever.  Even better, there are hundreds and thousands of other IBMers who are just as critical, and just as employed by IBM, to the Notes/Domino 7 launch.  There is incredble talent everywhere in the organization.  I pick on Thomas not just because he has a URL I can point to, but because he exemplifies the On Demand Workplace stuff I've been talking about -- Thomas doesn't work in Westford anymore, either.  Yet his contribution to the project is as strong as ever.

I just don't see why it's news that some people who used to work at Lotus at some point in the past now work at Microsoft.  Especially since in most of these supposed high-profile cases, Microsoft hasn't actually "raided" Lotus -- they've taken in people who left Lotus for one reason or another.  In some cases, years ago.  

I've tried very deliberately not to make this at all personal about anyone who works at IBM or MIcrosoft or has in the past.  People make decisions in their own best interests, and those decisions go both ways.  Can we all move on now?  Thanks.

Link: eWeek: Microsoft continues to raid Lotus >

Ed Brill Staying put! Category:  In the news  Add/View Comments [22]

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  1. 1  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 8/10/2005 11:11:54 PM

    I love how the press has to sensationalize these things in order to "drum up traffic". "Microsoft continues to raid Lotus" makes everyone jump to read it. Where the more accurate title of "Microsoft over the last few years has hired some people whom at some point worked at Lotus". I guess that is not as tantalizing! Similarly some people try and turn this into a negative about people leaving IBM, where the negative could just as easily be "MS does not know what they are doing, so they need to hire the people that did it right when they were at IBM". Anyway, good for everyone involved. I am always happy to see people have good jobs and good lives, and happy to see both MS and IBM create good products. I just wish the press would paint a more accurate picture, and cover both sides of the story.

  1. 2  Stu Mac http://www.uksatnavltd.com | 8/11/2005 2:55:32 AM

    Well said Ed

  1. 3  Simon Barratt http://apps.fmc.com/blog.nsf | 8/11/2005 8:32:21 AM

    Of course the press jumps on this type of thing! They always have done and always will. Following on from Ray Ozzie joining MS, any other ex Lotus staff recruitments are just modifying the noise to light ratio, so for the time being they stand out more!

  1. 4  Carl Tyler http://www.iminstant.com | 8/11/2005 8:59:11 AM

    I hope everyone you've mentioned was told you were going to be writing about them?

  1. 5  Carl Tyler http://www.iminstant.com | 8/11/2005 9:02:20 AM

    @1 It's because it's a war Alan, a battle, to free desktops of terrorist software, rogue agents and illegal drug traffickers. Ooops wait it's computer software, no one gets killed (well apart from the Russian Spammer) and no one really cares about this stuff, but just like Aliens being discovered in the bottom of my shoe being reported by national Enquirer people read this s*&t.

  1. 6  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net/bensblog.nsf | 8/11/2005 11:02:37 AM

    It's a pretty well known fact that I work in the motor industry for a little know brand called Toyota.

    I'd say at least 50%, probably more, of our staff have previously worked in another area of the industry; usually for competitors. Is it unusual that people would leave GMC, GM, Ford etc. to come to work for Toyota??? No, of course not. These staff just specialise in the car industry. The same as traders moving from one big bank to another.

    I see Lotus staff going to Microsoft as being just the same, no matter what spin the press want to put on it.

  1. 7  Greg Wojcicki  | 8/11/2005 12:25:33 PM

    Let's remember this - Microsoft is more of an imitator than an inovator. If Notes/Domino is such a "bad" product as they claim it to be why hire people that were involved in it's creation?

  1. 8  Dan  | 8/11/2005 12:47:41 PM

    So they don't make the same mistakes?

  1. 9  Shelley Solheim  | 8/11/2005 1:17:25 PM

    Greg, that is exactly the question I'm curious about and why I think it is newsworthy that Microsoft is recruiting former Lotus developers, and if any of you would like to share your perspective with me on this I encourage you to contact me.

    Ed, as I mentioned in my email to you, I encourage you to offer a comment for my story on your lack of interest in working for Microsoft. I will happily update my story. I did not want to put words in your mouth regarding your future plans, which is why I linked to your blog so readers could determine that for themselves. I apologize for not getting in touch with you sooner.

    Sincerely,

    Shelley Solheim

    shelley_solheim@ziffdavis.com

  1. 10  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 8/11/2005 1:48:01 PM

    @9 Shelley if you are happy to update your story, can you include some comments about the people coming back to work at IBM like Rocky and Bob?

  1. 11  Shelley Solheim  | 8/11/2005 1:58:49 PM

    I mentioned in my email to Ed that I would welcome the opportunity to speak with Rocky and Bob about why they chose to come back to IBM.

  1. 12  Rock http://www.lotusgeek.com | 8/11/2005 2:54:43 PM

    Shelley - rock AT us.ibm.com :)

    Ed - Bob did get mentioned in eWeek - by Spencer Katt!

    { Link }

  1. 13  Bob Balaban  | 8/11/2005 4:01:29 PM

    @11 Shelley - if IBM gives me permission, i'd be happy to chat with you. Maybe you can tell me who "lamented" the closure of Looseleaf to Spencer? ;-)

  1. 14  Shelley Solheim  | 8/11/2005 4:32:09 PM

    @13 I would love to chat with you Bob, but as for the Spencer leak, my lips are sealed! ;-)

  1. 15  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/11/2005 4:53:05 PM

    I did receive Shelley's e-mails, but am about to start the Las Vegas user group meeting. I'll check into this overnight and we'll get back to her ... hopefully with Rock and Bob as well :)

  1. 16  Rob Novak www.lotusdigerati.com | 8/11/2005 4:54:19 PM

    @Shelley - I think it's great that you are working with Ed, Bob and Rocky to tell some more facts on the story here. I personally didn't quite like the "Raid" headline but hey - headlines make people read. It sure worked this time! Microsoft is pretty obviously going after more collaboration talent for hire and with their partners - and what better place than with former Lotus people. If I were wanting to break into a market in a big way, I'd go after low-hanging fruit too, then see if I could score a big win with someone like Ed...no matter what the industry. Then I'd shore up and invest in my sales and partner channel with people and companies that know both sides pretty well. Then I'd release some products, take the competitive heat, and do it all over again.

    Software - at this level - is just one of those industries where the players change sides or play for both every so often. It's maturning as a market to the point that the key talent now has 15 years+ experience with sophisticated systems (not including chipslinging days with modems, RPG programs to calculate wages, or the like...I'm talking about complex human interface software). I think history will show that the high-end software markets are evolving just like any other - hitting points in maturity where the technical and strategic knowledge of individuals becomes coveted and for that matter marketable, as consolidation and acquisitions tend to fragment (not dilute) the talent base. I've seen it in oil, automotive, manufacturing, medical, even government to some extent. To see this begin to happen in software as the players are fewer and bigger, is no surprise.

    @Bob @Rock - Good show.

  1. 17  Arthur Fontaine  | 8/11/2005 11:06:45 PM

    Tempest in a teapot... One point that bears making is that MS isn't the only company out there that pings IBM employees regularly (and repeatedly), and I can guarantee you that few of those folks went over on the first contact. Makes you kind of wonder what happened to make them change their minds -- maybe that's the real story. Like Alan, I'm happy for anyone who enjoys what he or she does for a living, and there are many of us who do at IBM. It's flattering to be noticed but if you like your organization, your role, and the people around you -- and it's mutual -- it's a moot point. What's more important, the hundreds who stay or the fedw who don't?

  1. 18  Henning Heinz  | 8/13/2005 8:46:04 AM

    I am not sure if the fascinating thing is really the Microsoft raids IBM employee or the idea that Microsoft is getting the old Iris gang to build something new and great.

    No, I do not expect anything like this to happen but I admit that such a story sells.

    At (7)Greg

    I think the time where Microsoft named Notes a bad product is over. Now they are riding the "Notes is a great product but IBM is going to destroy it" wave and Microsoft is full of praise for Notes (of course always with a "how sad that it is going to die" message at the end).

    It even gets funny some way if the person selling the new story is the same one that told you the other way around not so long ago.

    I really like the "Microsoft is finally getting Notes" statement. It just starts to repeat every six months or so but nothing really happens (except they are still hiring).

  1. 19    | 8/15/2005 3:15:43 PM

    Comment deleted - no anonymous comments allowed.

  1. 20  Kudla mkudla.blogspot.com | 8/17/2005 10:23:46 PM

    Are you kidding me? It seems like a clean sweep for the guys in Redmond to me. To try and frame it as the normal migration of folks in the same industry from one big employer to another is, in my opinion, flat out wrong.

    We're talkin' chief architects, founders, visionaries...

    To me, it's akin to the President, Director of the CIA, Chairmain of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and most of their top aides all defecting to the Russkies, at the height of the cold war.

    In all these rebuttal comments, I have yet to hear mention of a single M-soft/Exchange heavy hitter who has moved to Westford. Maybe they are there, they are just not mentioned for confidentiality reasons.

    In any even Microsoft has assembled a Murderer's Row of Notes/Domino luminaries. It's way better than having all the source code to the Notes/Domino platform. These guys have the knowledge, the source code is pretty much unreadable :-)

  1. 21  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/18/2005 7:41:48 AM

    @20 Mike, hmm, not sure that recruiting from Exchange would be viewed as "heavy hitters". (zing!)

    Microsoft certainly made a smart decision to cash in their chips and buy the talent at Groove. There are certainly other ex-Loti at Microsoft who I respect. But there are still hundreds of really smart people in the IBM labs, and they'it is IBM who has delivered consistently for 15+ years. Microsoft simply doesn't have that track record, no matter how long they've had the people (and I could make a long list here of ex-Loti who went to MS in the past and haven't delivered a sustainable version of collaboration. Anyone remember Web Storage System? :-o)

  1. 22  Mrs Doyle  | 8/19/2005 5:14:40 PM

    Have to say , delighted you highlighted Thomas, I've been working with Notes for more than 10 years now, and I have to admit on Notes.Net, hes brillant. In fact he really helped me out about a year ago when I had an response from our local IBM service desk on an issue that I did not agree on, so I posted it on Notes.net. He responded, and the local tech support were very quick to change their tune. People change jobs all the time , but I'd hate to see him (and yourself) leave IBM and it seems that you are more the 'human face'.