Ed Brill

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1. 1  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 6/6/2005 12:46:01 PM

   <soapbox>

   Adding significant new user capabilities into the CORE of Notes would be a good way. For some years now Notes has been playing second fiddle to WebSphere/Workplace. I understand this is part of a sensible stategy, but that strategy is taking an awfully long time to mature. The IM stuff is good, but was not built into Notes, being an added on piece for the longest time. SQL backend is excellent progress, but geek centric. Anti-spam features -- how unique. Fixing mail template lameness -- great! about time.

   How about some stuff to get managers excited again? How about selling Notes as the best all-around client and the amazing distributed app platform that it is? How about talking up the wonderful security model? How about going on the offensive about it, rather than defending, however effectively, against rumours that it will be eliminated?

   Why do we still have to 'de-emphasise' that we use Notes in order not to be eliminated from most sales? (to be fair, it has been a plus on one significant occasion)

   Sigh, sorry Ed. You deserve such bile least of all people.

   Cheers, Andy

   </soapbox>

1. 2  Tony S Lee  | 6/6/2005 1:00:25 PM

   My wife is a teacher at Peel District School Board near Toronto. They use Domino as their intranet, but because everything is web-based, they have no idea of the underlying infrastructure.

1. 3  Ken Porter  | 6/6/2005 1:27:36 PM

   Well for one, stop trying to use the word 'eh' to denote a question! It takes years of immersion into Canadian culture to be able to use it correctly. :-)

1. 4  tonyo - the new implants work very well thank you  | 6/6/2005 3:18:13 PM

   I talk about it all the time ! :)

1. 5  Hosun Lee  | 6/6/2005 3:19:51 PM

   @3, Would you be willing to teach us all aboot the right way? ;)

1. 6  Stan Rogers http://stanrogers.blogspot.com | 6/6/2005 3:36:54 PM

   We don't say "aboot", eh? (Note that although there is a comma and question mark, the sentence is a statement and not a question, eh?)

   This is an excerpt from the authoritative usage guide:

   <<

   Eh? - Rhymes with hay. The great Canajan monosyllable and shibboleth, 'eh?', is all things to everyone. Other nations may boast their interjections and interrogative expletives - such as the Mare Can 'huh?', the Briddish 'what?', the French 'hein?' - but none of them can claim the range and scope of meaning that are encompassed by the simple Canajan 'eh?'. Interrogation, assertion, surprise, bewilderment, disbelief, contempt only the beginning of 'eh?' and already we have passed beyond the limitations of 'huh?', 'what?', 'hein?' and their pallid analogues. To begin with, 'eh?' is an indicator, sure and infallible, that one is in the presence of an authentic Canajan speaker. Although 'eh?' may be met with in Briddish and Mare Can litter choor, no one else in the world 'eh?s' his way through life as a Canajan does, nor half so comfortably. By contrast, 'huh?' is a grunt; 'what?' foppish and affected; and 'hein?' nasal and querulous. Whereas 'eh?' takes you instantly into the speaker's confidence. Only 'eh?' is frank and open, easy and unaffected, friendly and even intimate. Viewed syntactically, 'eh?' may appear solo or as part of a set of words, in which case it may occupy either terminal, medial or inital position. We shall consider these briefly. Its commonest solo use is as simple interrogative calling for the repetition of something either not heard because inaudible or, if heard, then not cearly understood. In this context 'eh?' equals 'What did you say?', 'How's that?' Or in Canajan, 'Wadja say?', 'Howzat?' According to intonation, the meaning of solo 'eh?' may vary all the way from inquiry (as we have seen) through doubt to incredulity. Here are a few examples: 'I'm giving up smoking.' 'Eh?' (A cross between what? and oh yeah?) 'Could you load me two bucks?' 'Eh?' (Are you kidding?) 'Here's the two bucks I owe you.' 'Eh?' (I don't Believe it!) 'Eh?' in terminal position offers a running commentary on the speaker's narrative, not unlike vocal footnotes: 'I'm walking down the street, eh?' (Like this, see?) 'I'd hadda few beers en I was feeling priddy good, eh?' (You know how it is.) 'When all of a sudden I saw this big guy, eh?' (Ya see.) 'He musta weighed all of 220 pounds, eh?' (Believe me.) 'I could see him from a long ways off en he was a real big guy, eh?' (I'm not fooling.) 'I'm minding my own business, eh?' (You can bet I was.) 'But this guy was taking up the whole sidewalk, eh?' (Like I mean he really was.) 'So when he came up to me I jess stepped inta the gudder, eh?' (I'm not crazy, ya know.) 'En he went on by, eh?' (Just like that.) 'I gave up, eh?' (What else could I do?) 'Whattud you a done, eh?' (I'd like to know since you're so smart.) 'Eh?' is medial position is less common and so more prized by collectors: 'We're driving to Miami, eh?, for our holidays.' (Like where else?) 'There aren't many people, eh?, that can find their way around Oddawa like he can.' (You know as well as I do.) 'Eh?' rarely appears in initial position. This, while one might ask: 'N'est-ce pas qu'il a de la chance?', Canajans could only say: 'He's lucky, eh?' Forners are warned to observe extreme caution with 'eh?' since nothing will give them away more quickly than its indiscriminate use. Like the pronunciation of Skatchwan (only much more so), it is a badge of Canajanism which requires half a lifetime to learn to use with the proper panache. A teacher at Arm See suggested recently that 'eh?' is not Canajan since it may also be found in the Knighted States, the You Kay, and Sou Thafrica. In the same way sign tists have tried to prove that hockey was not invented in Canada, but Canajans remain unconvinced, eh?

   >>

   (From "Canajan, Eh?" by Mark Orkin)

   As for getting Canadians talking about Notes in a meaningful way, you'va already found The Source -- The Mop And Pail (Canada's Rational Newspaper). If it doesn't show up in Report On Business, it ain't business news. (There's the National Post/Financial Post as well, but their audience is interested in the balance sheet numbers rather than the tech trends. The people who matter read both.)

   There's gotta be a way for the good people in Markham to scare up a bit of interest, maybe in collaboration with TLUG. Ken, you're still there, eh?

1. 7  Jess Stratton http://www.mattandjess.net | 6/6/2005 3:39:25 PM

   Well, Press doesn't cover things that work. :-)

   Seriously! In the world of news coverage, things that work the way they are designed to work are boring. How often do we REALLY hear about MS in the news unless it's about the latest exploit/security leak? IBM needs a good old fashioned scandal, press coverage will skyrocket. LOL!

1. 8  Brian Benz http://www.softwaresoapbox.com | 6/6/2005 4:16:55 PM

   Glad to see the Globe and Mail positive on Notes!

   I remember in 1997 reading a front-page spread in the Business pages about (aboot?) OpenText and Netscape beating out Notes for Bell Canada's collaboration infrastructure - disheartening because I was working on Notes and Domino at Bell Canada in Montreal at the time.

   BTW, I just did a search on the Globe and Mail Web site, now OpenText usually makes the G&M business news because of earnings disappointments...guess they were looking for some good collaboration news!

1. 9  Jennifer  | 6/6/2005 4:47:41 PM

   @3 and a few years out of it to get rid of it!!!

1. 10  Andy Steven www.uptime100.com.au | 6/6/2005 5:52:46 PM

   I think his point is great. When was the last time you picked up a magazine that was reviewing web servers (as an example), and it had Domino? No one knows it exists, no one knows that it is probably the easiest system to get a db working on the web (in my opinion)

1. 11  Hosun Lee  | 6/6/2005 8:03:41 PM

   Microsoft is amazing a self-promotion. It seems to me that Microsoft focuses more on marketing and less on the technology while IBM does the latter.

   That's why the average consumers know more of Microsoft's product line vs IBM's. A lot of people probably don't even know that IBM makes software. They think giant mainframes.

1. 12  Norm Van Bergen  | 6/6/2005 8:58:05 PM

   @11 - I once had a US border/immigration official (grilling me on why I was going to consult in the US for a few days) say to me "Since when does IBM make software?".

   I just about laughed out loud. Managed to hold it in until I got seated on the plane. Then again, WHY did he say that? Perhaps it's because it's perceived that MS markets to everyone, and IBM markets to IT - at least if I put myself in his shoes, that how he might perceive it.

1. 13  Andy ZHANG  | 6/6/2005 9:17:59 PM

   Working for IBM means you have to use Notes. Frankly, it's quite a good thing. But sometimes I have an idea why the developers do not have a "exclude list". There is a "To" list, 'CC' list, 'BCC' list. But if someone in your local group send you a note, how can you forward it to your group other than the sender? If Notes has a 'exclude' list, that will be simple.

   Think about it...

1. 14  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 6/6/2005 11:09:15 PM

   @13 -- nice idea.

   @10,@11,@12 -- these echo my own experience. Why can IT departments shut the door on Notes and not have to defend their decision? Why do they feel they do not have to explain why they are excluding an enormously successful and capable platform? Why will non-IT people happily accept this?

1. 15  Hosun Lee  | 6/7/2005 1:09:07 AM

   @14 IBM needs poseable action figures.

   Hear me out.

   Intel's popularity skyrocketed when they started selling the Bunny People beanie babies.

   Microsoft's got their rainbow butterfly.

   Apple has Steve Jobs.

   All three companies are experiencing record consumer awareness and are both doing very well in their market space.

   This is what you get with soft, plushie and harmless mascots. That's good and all, but IBM can better than imitate the others, IBM can one-up them.

   Introducing the IBM action figure. Fully poseable, with a kung-fu grip. Comes with many accessories, including a 10-user license of Notes/Domino. It can trample butterflies, eat bunnies and use the Vulcan Neck Pinch on Steve Jobs.

   I'm telling you, you get 15,000 of these units on shelves by Christmas, and every 10-year will demand Notes/Domino. This is my prediction.

   On a less serious note....IT departments can shut out Notes/Domino because they already have Outlook/Exchange. People resist change. Change costs money. IT departments spend money, not make money.

   And if Microsoft has already convinced the general populace that they make the only messaging client/server, it encourages complacency within It departments. Even if you manage to open up some minds, you still have to deal with the inertia of employees who have become acclimated to the Outlook UI and do not want to learn a new trick.

   In other words, it's cheaper, less effort and easier to justify.

1. 16  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 6/7/2005 3:23:51 AM

   >IT departments can shut out Notes/Domino because they already have Outlook/Exchange. People resist change. Change costs money. IT departments spend money, not make money.<

   Quite correct. That is why IT departments should exist in an environment where they cannot simply dismiss Notes without being questioned. Managers need to understand that Notes can make them successful and that IT needs to enable that success, not prevent it.

   :)

1. 17  Nathan T. Freeman  | 6/7/2005 4:06:31 AM

   Jess makes a great point. Press coverage is about failure, not success, so IBM's lack of MSM coverage is a good thing. IBM *could* stand a lot more product line-up comparisions, and a direct effort by a Domino team to ensure that Notes/Domino is included in EVERY product shoot-out that's even remotely related would probably generate visibility.

   The move from defense to offense vs. MS has already been taking place, so a continuation of that trend would be good. Frankly, I'd like to see *somebody*, perhaps not IBM, starting to pursue major Microsoft users on a corporate responsibility tack. CIOs who continue to deploy Microsoft infrastructures in public companies should be facing SEC firing squads. Don't know where that could come from, but that's part of what it will take to get people re-focused on technological merits instead of marketing success.

1. 18  Chris Whisonant http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com | 6/7/2005 7:04:33 AM

   At least someone thinks Notes is alive and well... thanks for the story.

   Here's my take on the latest MS marketing campaign:

   { Link }

1. 19  Skip Corbin  | 6/7/2005 8:25:25 AM

   @ This discussion has pointed back to IBM's inability to market to anyone other than executives. There is an interesting Product MS uses to get people started in using thier messaging. They provide Outlook Express. Perhaps we need a Notes Express. Only the trick is, its simplythe Notes Client prepped to work with regular POP email. Be sure to include the Calendar function and throw in the Journal and full LDAP address book. Limit IBM's revenue to the licenses used for Domino server ID's and the DB functionality you get quickly and easily with Domino. I for one HATE that my home PC MUST use Outlook if I am to have a calendar! I exist outside of work where I, obviously, use Notes. The killer app in Email messaging is the Calendar! Hands down.

1. 20  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 6/7/2005 8:40:40 AM

   @19 to some degree, been there done that. We did a Notes Express in limited distribution in the past, and were relatively unsuccessful. The real reason MS is successful with Outlook Express isn't just that it is free, but also that it is bundled on the PC. If people had to consciously choose OE, there would be a competitive market. Otherwise, it's tough in the consumer space.

1. 21  Hosun Lee  | 6/7/2005 9:16:04 AM

   This isn't about Notes, but this is an article on how IBM could raise their profile.

   { Link }

   Rich Karlgaard at Forbes suggests that IBM should buy Electronics Arts. If that ever happened, it would make it a lot harder to ignore IBM as a software leader.

   Last line of the article:

   "Memo to Sam Palmisano: You make chips that run the world's coolest games. Now put some game into IBM's Global Services. Buy Electronic Arts."

1. 22  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 6/7/2005 9:43:45 AM

   @21, I'd be the first to signup to work in that division!

1. 23  Subhan http://slate.blogspirit.com | 6/7/2005 9:43:49 AM

   Yeah, when the community starts talking abt a product, IBM changes its name to something else. Check out this product page for so many "formerly..." { Link }

   Geeks can probably digest such changes but not the general users. Brand names like Quickplace and Sametime has been dropped for something which can't be remembered or talk about.

   If IBM wants to build a Workplace to counter Office, it needs to cautiously use the term in Product Names. For eg, each product in Office Suite has its own brand & individuality. When one say MS Word or Outlook you know what you are talking about. But when you hear Workplace it could mean anything from Team Workplace to Lotus Workpace (here i am talking abt the R6 workplace mainpage. Remember that, eh? :)

1. 24  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 6/7/2005 10:13:00 AM

   @23 you may be on to something.

1. 25  Thomas Schulte  | 6/7/2005 1:30:57 PM

   @20

   Yes IBM has been there and IBM has done that and still after what, five years this product has been drawn back we get questions about it (where to get and how to install).

   Sorry Ed but you are totally wrong. Giving the latest notes client for free to the hand of private users would really have a huge impact on the perception of Notes/Domino in the public view. Perhaps not on the sales. Not at the first two or three years.

   Do this with some of the better applications that are listed at OpenNTF and you will have a rocket starting.

   Use the skill of the notes community. Build a discussion forum related to that product which is seen international so that users can ask their questions in their motherlanguage and as with atnotes.de or notes.net you will have enough support to solve every error private people make when installing or configuring. Show them that this is not only a Mail Tool but that you can design applications with and around this one and you can guess what happens. Build not only one but two or three mail.ntfs with different interfaces away with the product and boom you have a hit.

   IBM has still not learned that marketing for tools that should have a real broad audience begins with the people outside of the companies. That was the one thing that MS ever did the right way. Or why do you think was copying MS OSes and SW so easy for a long time.

1. 26  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 6/7/2005 6:53:26 PM

   <grumpy old fart mode>

   Personally I think Notes needs to be re-introduced to IT folks. Most of them by now have never known anything but MS. Very few have any idea of what Notes is or what it *can* do, although (it seems) there are always people to tell them what it cannot. I think Notes has been around and in the background for so long that the facts about it have been forgotten in the mists of time.

   "<sigh>No, its not a spreadsheet" (yes, we still get this one)

   "<sigh>Yes, it does do more than email"

   "<sigh>Yes, it does work on the internet"

   "<sigh>Yes, it has security. <SIGH>Yes, its 128-bit<G>"

   Isn't the fact that Notes has survived the test of time, and become ever better, something to be proud of and crow about? What about that it has fought the most successful company in history to a draw despite the latter having huge advantages? What about all the defense systems that have not been compromised? What about the incredible security model?

   Why is it, when we go to talk to a new potential client, that the client has no idea of what Notes' strengths are?

   </grumpy old fart mode>

   Workplace is great, but you need real stuff to put in its panes if you are to provide real value. I am really glad to see IBM/Lotus scaling back its adventurism (eSuite,Raven anyone?) a bit and starting to think more seriously about its core products. Perhaps it is time to make the rest of the world do the same (go, Ed, go!! :)

1. 27  Nathan T. Freeman  | 6/8/2005 3:02:31 AM

   For the record, I remain convinced, 5 years after suggesting this at LDD, that IBM could still benefit tremendously from a major university-level academic initiative to put the entire Workplace combination into college labs. An investment of $1-2 million in each of the 20 largest CS programs in the US would yield, what, a couple of thousands of fresh-faced, Linux-raised, Workplace-experienced go-getters who write open source extensions in their spare time? It would take 3 or 4 years to really show fruition, but it could be a major boon.

1. 28  comment deleted  | 6/8/2005 3:20:35 AM

   comment deleted per blog policy (no valid name/e-mail)

1. 29  Bill Geimer  | 6/8/2005 5:04:56 PM

   @23 - IBM did the same thing to their MainFrames, Wintel machines, AS/400's and RS600s. Somehow, I can never remember which is Z and which is, well, whatever.

1. 30  Eric Parsons startingblockcomputing.com | 6/8/2005 9:11:03 PM

   @26, you may have forgotten,

   <sigh>yes, it complies with the RFC's (instead of changing the concept of darkness)

   And you gotta love today's SearchExchange article about Outlook/Exchange admins having to "sit, hope, and pray"

   <sigh>yes, it has an Execution Control List.

1. 31  Tony P  | 6/8/2005 9:19:19 PM

   Personally I think that IBM needs to market to the architects in organisations, not just executives. I think that they have more influence in IT products/solutions than the humble domino developer. In the past the architects may have had some understanding of domino. However, these days the achitects are more concerned with SOA, RDBMS, J2EE and .NET. Whilst most domino developer understands where domino fits into this picture I doubt that most architects do.

1. 32  Henning Heinz  | 6/9/2005 9:30:36 AM

   100 Terrabyte of data in a DB/2 database but it cannot return more than 64kB in a @DBColumn result set.

   It makes much more sense to put all efforts into J2EE Workplace.

   I am not for giving away the client again or releasing a IBM Notes Thunderbird clone but Thomas in (25) mentioned a valid point. The Notes 5 Private Edition in Germany was a success in some way. The only mistake I can see here that it was considered a failure at IBM and therefore cancelled.But maybe a "We tried that and it did not work" message is just easier to sell?

1. 33  Clyde McKenney  | 6/16/2005 12:43:37 PM

   Who would notice? :-) Actually, why limit the question to Canadians?

   As an ancient Notes evangelist (from the days when the only way to get it was to hand $68k to Jim Manzi), IBM's apparent rediscovery of the jewel in their closet prompts a warm, satisfying grin and fond memories of a Lotusphere actor disappearing into a big white balloon...

   Want more Notes awareness? Hmm...hopefully NOT by hacking the http server to send an IBM logo popup whenever any browser issues a request with '.nsf' in the URL....

   If they won't give away the client, then at least offer it for download online to individuals for <#20.

   @20 - ahh, the inevitable 'monopoly' excuse. So, compete against the monopoly bundling with a distinctive-looking IBM Linux-based desktop OS (w/ best-of-class Linux apps incl. Notes) called Notes OS that any OEM can preinstall @ half the MS fee. A cheap subscription to public, server-hosted real-nsf Notes Mail. Retail support-minute cards next to the gum in checkout lines. Advertising as ubiquitous as Cialis....

   If nothing else, extend the new-found wisdom of respecting established brand names, and change "Domino Web Access" back to Notes, or Notes Webmail. (Dare I say it? Change "Domino" back to Notes Server. Notes OS, Notes Server, Notes Client, Notes Webmail, Notes Chat (st), Notes Blog (qp))....