Ed Brill

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1. 1  Ted Stanton http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?roll=0&blog=416 | 1/13/2005 11:15:13 AM

   Hey Ed, not sure if you saw this article by Kevin Cavanaugh, Vice President of Development for Domino Products.

   Lotus Notes and Domino 7.0 preview: An upgrade with something for everyone

   { Link }

   "Another class of new features helps Notes and Domino customers take advantage of the IBM Workplace model and IBM Workplace Client Technology. For example, Notes/Domino Document Manager 7 adds support for standards common to the IBM Workplace family of products, such as the JSR 170 document management standard, and the SIP/Simple Instant Messaging standard, which will enable enterprises to host mixed communities of SIP Simple and Sametime instant messaging users.

   Another new feature, called the Notes Plug-in, lets any Notes application run with full compatibility and fidelity in applications delivered on Workplace Client Technology, IBM’s new platform for enabling rich user experiences via centrally managed clients."

1. 2  Rock http://www.lotusgeek.com | 1/13/2005 12:45:42 PM

   I commented on this as well on my blog...

   { Link }

1. 3  AJP  | 1/13/2005 1:08:44 PM

   ■We■re headed for a time when customers will be able to roll out or update Notes applications almost instantaneously,■

   ".... Whatever we do to improve the product, we■re going to make sure it retains full-fidelity support for the functions and capabilities our customers have invested in.■

   So, will it eventually be possible to deploy a Notes 6.n (or earlier)application designed solely for the Notes Client using Formulas and LotusScript to new users who do not have a Notes Client via the a Lotus Workplace server without making any changes to the Notes Application?

   And, will that Notes application retain its full off-line capabilities?

1. 4  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 1/13/2005 1:54:44 PM

   AJP - how would you expect to be able to deploy a Notes client application without a Notes client?

   This article is about the future of Notes clients and Notes client apps -- it talks about how Notes will continue to do what it has always done (i.e. apps with formulas and lotuscript, off-line) but do a lot more in the future.

   I guess I'm misunderstanding the basis for your question.

1. 5  Andrew Pollack http://www.thenorth.com/apblog | 1/13/2005 3:05:42 PM

   AJP -- the question is broken. You'll have a rich client. It will be a Lotus Notes client. It will be a Lotus Workplace Client. It will depend only on what licensing you have and what code your admin provisions to you. At least, that's how I read the article -- its been teh message for some time, just not as clearly put.

1. 6  Neilk www.domino-guru.co.uk | 1/14/2005 2:59:49 AM

   Its this statement that I particually like...

   "In time Notes will also integrate the upcoming IBM Workplace Productivity tools ■ including word processing, spreadsheet and presentation editors that for many organizations can eliminate costly desktop licenses for broad classes of users."

   Can this timeframe be around 7.5, it would be great if we could have these tools in Notes, we could then look at getting rid of office...

   Ohh and Ed any news on how I can get hold of a copy of Domino.Doc 7.0, then I can prepare presentations for Admin/Developer 2005 !!

1. 7  AJP  | 1/14/2005 5:47:57 AM

   Ed (4) , Andrew (5),

   Perhaps the misunderstanding is mine or I jump over a few too many steps in one go.

   Throughout the article "Notes" is referred to which, since the renaming of the server to Domino, has meant the Notes Client. What I take from the article is that Domino will evolve to become the Workplace and Notes will evolve to become the Workplace Client (or as Andrew calls it the "Universal Rich Client" or URC)

   In one statement Bisconti says; "Whatever we do to improve the product, we■re going to make sure it retains full-fidelity support for the functions and capabilities our customers have invested

   in.■ So backward compatibility is assured as it always has been. Given that backward compatibly is assured surely then a Notes application (Lotus script, formula's etc...) will run in the future Workplace Client (URC).

   The Para: "Workplace Client Technology■s server-managed framework will let an organization stream application components and upgrades in lightweight chunks, from the server to the end user's workstation, automatically as the user needs them ■ which should dramatically decrease the time and cost of deploying and updating Notes and Notes applications." And the Statement: ■We■re headed for a time when customers will be able to roll out or update Notes applications almost instantaneously, ". Implies to me that the Workplace Client (URC) will be downloaded/installed as needed.

   So Given that a Notes application will run in the Workplace Client (URC) and the Workplace Client (URC) will be downloaded as needed I have extrapolated to "a Notes Application can be deployed to a new user who does not have a Notes Client". True, they won't have a Notes Client, they will automatically be given the Workplace Client (URC) components needed to run the application. A little like going off-line with Quickplace but much better.

   To put it into context. I support a complex Notes 6.n application aimed at small companies, but lots of them. The biggest problem we have is deploying and supporting the Notes Client on end users machines which in reality requires an on site visit for all new users. The application will not lend itself to a browser due to the Rich Client requirements. If the Notes 6.n application can be deployed using a browser and the Workplace Client (URC) is automatically downloaded when the user first registers/signs up without an on site visit then Yeeeha! thank you IBM.

   Notes does not stand still, and nor will our application(s). If you stand still you only get run over. Over time our application(s) will take advantage of new functionality in the Notes/Workplace/Universal Client. However, we have a huge investment in the existing LS/Formula form layouts and all the things you would expect in a Notes Client application, and we do not want to rewrite code that works simply because it is in the wrong language.

   I fight a battle at least once a year to defend our use of Notes/Domino as the platform on which to base our application. These battle are getting easier, as much due to inertia on our part as the future plans of Notes. However, statements from IBM like this are very comforting and will make my life a lot easier. I've got a lots of hats I'm committed to eat if our Notes strategy fails :-o

1. 8  Axel Janssen  | 1/14/2005 6:43:22 AM

   That's right.

   Now I see the bright light of eternal wisdom.

   !!!Its plain right full transparency!!!

   I trust IBM/Lotus like I've allways trusted them.

   Just further code those @Formulas and LotusScript functions and because of the transparency, doesn't matter.

   I'll get a well designed J2EE application, easy to maintain, to upgrade and to fix, right?

   Wooha. Those Microsoft freaks with their .NOT platform will have an hard day. Won't they?

   Axel

1. 9  Steve Bryant www.outlookexchange.com | 1/14/2005 12:43:30 PM

   *Exchange Guy Here*

   As far as I can tell, the picture is rather clear. The announcements and the documentation on the Workplace site indicates that Workplace offers data providers to allow access to NSF files including their scripts and code. That part was already formally annouced and documented on IBM's site.

   What is new about this annoucement is that Workplace (J2EE, etc) compatibility will be built into the future releases of the Notes client to allow "forward compatability" into WorkPlace. This is easily done by providing an additional providor on the Notes client similar to a browser that will allow access to Workplace portals and information.

   Ed would know much more about this than I do, but that is how I understand it.

   -Steve Bryant

   P.S. Will there be a wizard to move the @Formulas and LotusScript functions to DB2 If so, does anyone know the development tools that are used to create apps in WorkPlace? I have been curious about that and have not found many resources.

1. 10  Andrew Pollack http://www.thenorth.com/apblog | 1/14/2005 12:57:28 PM

   Please forgive my typos -- I'm typing in a web browser.

   Steve, that sounds like a fair assessment to me given what is public, let me try to refine it just a bit though.

   First thing to note, is that as we talk about future Notes clients, we're talking about Notes running within the eclipse based Workplace Rich Client Framework. Translated, that means a single client will be used to talk to either Domino or Workplace servers, or both, or a combination of them and other servers development just about anyone. This is the "Universal" rich client that the browser couldn't really ever grow up to be, because it is not architecturally complex enough (everything starts as a rendering engine in the browser, that's backwards).

   J2EE is a transaction processing framework that includes standards for transport, authentication, and interaction of components -- that's great for some kinds of things like high volume transactions, but it lacks very important things like a datastore with inherent security and a rapid development framework. Workplace Services Servers will provide a back end that can be talked to with J2EE, and also with several other methods. They'll provide the services that a J2EE application, a Workplace application, and lots of other kinds of applications really need. A secure place to put stuff, directory services (or references to directory services), mail transport of some kind, etc. etc. The servers will be able to speak to several kinds of platforms from mobile devices all the way through full rich clients based on the Workplace Rich Client framework.

   IBM has said they're planning rapid application development tools that will make building applications that run from Workplace servers much easier -- a long the lines of building applications for Lotus Domino. To my knowledge, the actual products that will fill this space haven't been formally announced yet.

   This announcement then, builds on that in two ways:

   First, it makes clear that the Notes client and the Workplace client are the same client. Within that client framework, the modules which access and work with applications design for workplace will be getting good access to work with data and the object model from the Domino side, and the Lotus Notes code which runs within the frame will continue to be enhanced -- and one of this areas of enhancement will be functionality to work directly with the Workplace back end.

   All in all, its about everything working more and more tightly together over time, without any one part losing its own identity.

   Will we see you at Lotusphere?

1. 11  Simon Barratt  | 1/14/2005 2:03:43 PM

   According to Messaging Pipeline, their list of things to watch in 2005 includes:

   IBM promotes Workplace, pushes Notes aside--Sad to say, but it looks like IBM is determined, however subversively, to do away with Notes. Its Workplace strategy has created confusion among its customers, and has led to serious numbers of defections. Whatever the company says, it looks like it's intentional and it's certainly bad news for the folks who depend on Notes.

   The author even has the audacity to claim the Radicatti supports this opninon!!! :-x

1. 12  Simon Barratt  | 1/14/2005 2:12:44 PM

   Forgot to post a link in my previous post

   { Link }

1. 13  Steve Bryant www.outlookexchange.com | 1/14/2005 2:14:00 PM

   Andrew,

   Thanks a million! That is exactly the kinds of detail that I was looking for. However, the last paragragh is a little confusing to me. I am pretty sure that the (fat) Notes client will not be ported to the thinner, Eclipse-based workstation. In fact, the whole idea of WorkPlace is to thin out the code and move people off Windows desktops and into an more open environment. This means that there will certainly not be one client that fits all.

   Moreover, if you look at the recommended development scenarios for WorkPlace, they are not suggesting or even recommending Designer, LotusScript or @Formulas. The new environment is built to support the Eclipse UI Framework. IBM lists these tools as the appropriate development tools for WorkPlace.

   JFace Toolkit

   Java 2 Micro Edition (J2ME■)Model

   Java Visual Editor

   WebSphere Studio Application Developer

   WebSphere Studio Device Developer

   Boland JBuilder

   Micro Environment Toolkit for WebSphere Studio

   Workplace Builder

   Web Services for Remote Portlets

   We are talking about two separate environments, platforms and developement efforts here.

1. 14  Alan Lepofsky  | 1/14/2005 8:20:50 PM

   @11, Simon, its not my job to force people's opinions on them, rather I try to assist by pointing them to facts, thus allowing them to base their opinions of the information available. So, my question would be, are you more inclined to believe a writer at Messagingpipelne, or Ken Bisconti the IBM VP actually in charge of the product? I'd understand the author's predictions if that article was written in Jan of last year, as IBM's message was not as clear as it needed to be back then. Note I say "message", not plans. The plans are the same as they were, IBM never intended on doing away with Notes. I hope the writer attends Lotusphere, and then issues a strong retraction, as the facts will tell the true story.

1. 15  Simon Barratt  | 1/14/2005 8:39:39 PM

   @14, Alan - I think you know who I believe. In fact I sent an email to the author linking him to Ken's article and recommended that he does attend Lotusphere to get his facts straight!!!! Looks like we are on the same page.

   In his reply to my email, he states:

   "IBM continues to develop and promote its Workplace product line, which has the same and/or better functionality as Notes/Domino. It is not heavily promoting Notes and while there is a published roadmap for the product, I■d point you to IBM■s long and sorry history of publishing roadmaps that are never used for product direction. Sort of like politics in some parts of the world."

   I'm not sure what examples he has, but he seems set in his way!

1. 16  Alan Lepofsky  | 1/14/2005 11:58:54 PM

   Thanks Simon, thrilled to hear we've got another advocate out there! Let's hope that writer is willing to eat crow when 2005's release of Notes 7 proves to be the best version ever!

1. 17    | 1/15/2005 3:48:10 AM

   Personally, I find it rather amusing that while the author was happy to take a swipe at IBM over Workplace/Notes he failed to mention "Exchange" once in his article about messaging in 2005. Presumably he is not expecting Microsoft to produce a roadmap for their product this year.

1. 18  Subhan http://slate.blogspirit.com | 1/15/2005 5:26:53 AM

   Last week, I rolled out a LN Application for a newly merged Business Unit and this will be done for 2 more BUs. This is an existing application which is being used since 1998. (I would love to see something similar Application year Life on Exchange) And note this is not some simple document storage (like Sharepoint), but a full workflow rich customer service app, including faxing capabilities.

   And Notes in its current release still provides me full support in rolling out to new units in year 2005 (wow.. dats 8yrs).

   So what we are seeing here, is a further commitment from IBM (which of course is not required considering the past records) on this backward compatibility and caring for customer's years of investment in Notes.

   IBM Workplace is a portfolio of Human-facing softwares and Notes do have important space in this. And as we understand, there will be other softwares in this portfolio like Websphere Portal, Lotus Workplace, etc. Of course there will be certain level of overlapping features among these products which should not be confused with product-replacement. Like we never ask "Is Hotmail going to replace Outlook/Exchange?"

   For more than an year IBM is sharing with its Customers, Partners, and Developer Communities, the roadmap which is not for a single release or a single year, but well into year 2008. And the things that we are reading/hearing/talking about are not going to materialize in the next release or next year. But they reflects strong plans from IBM in providing Innovative platforms for us to roll out (Super) Human Softwares.:)

   @13 (And have I missed a similar Roadmap and commitments from MS?...never read any. Steve you might be having one :)

1. 19  Chris Whisonant  | 1/15/2005 6:54:26 AM

   @13 - Steve, and others who may be confused about the Domino integration with Workplace.

   Basically there is going to be a Domino "plugin" that can be installed in the Workplace client. This will allow the workplace client to access any Domino NSF (or DB2) databases. This also means that there can finally be a Linux "Notes" client because you can run Workplace on Linux...

   See also:

   { Link }

1. 20  Simon Barratt  | 1/15/2005 9:29:47 AM

   @16, Alan, what amazes me the most, is the continued reports from journalists that Notes/Domino customers are confused by the product direction! IBM have made it very clear what the direction is. I don't think the customers are confused any more, put the journalists are, and they continue to report their lack of understanding, but in the context of a customer, thus propogating this perception on and on!

   I just hope Lotusphere settles this once and for all!!

1. 21  Alan Lepofsky  | 1/15/2005 11:02:22 AM

   @20. As do we! What upsets me is that this is NOT new news. At Lotusphere last year ({ Link } Ambuj Goyal specifically said: "Addressing the rumor that IBM is walking away from Notes and Domino, Goyal said, "We may make mistakes from time to time, but really! Our goal is to expand our world leadership. Not to walk away from it.". This was then followed by my article in April: { Link } and Jason's in August: { Link } Not to mention everything Ed says day after day on this blog, and my apologies to the many other sources I may be leaving out.

   Good news does not sell (or get page hits) the way bad news does, and human nature seems to like controversy. Me, I like to look at the truth, and what benefits our customers.

   Notes/Domino has (for a decade) and continues to provide customers a solution unlike any other in the industry. Rather than listen to MS FUD, customers should make sure they are getting the most out of their Notes/Domino investment ({ Link } and even better... start planning for the amazing things they will be able to do with future versions of Notes/Domino, and yes Workplace.

   Here is the list of Notes/Domino projects I suggested on Brian Benz's blog a few weeks ago:

   - Sametime enable Notes applications.

   - Add Sametime Web-Conferencing to your environment

   - Upgrade existing applications with tons of ND6.x features. Examples: Column Color Coding, Edit documents in a view, Collapsible and ■captionable■ framesets, ■Rich text lite■ fields, Default field hints, New tables and sections styles, Cascading style sheet support, customizable twisties, background images on forms and views, XML, JSP tags, ..., .... ,...

   - Provide users with Domino Web Access

   - Set up LEI to link Domino to other systems such as DB2, Oracle, etc.

   - Set up MS Office Integration, such as Notes <---> Excel.

   - Set up Notes <---> SAP integration.

   - Look into Notes/Domino integration with WebSphere Portal

   - Build Domino based web sites where the content is easy to manage. Combine WAS for even more advanced designs. Look at IBM's various Document and Web Content Management solutions.

   - Build mobile applications.

   - Start learning about ND7's development enhancements like web services and DB2 integration, so that you they can start planning all the NEW things they will do with Domino. Domino applications have the potential to be more amazing then ever before!

   - Make sure they know about, and are using many of Domino's features such as: Directory assistance, mobile directory catalogs, server clustering, document libraries, Teamrooms, transaction logging, mail message journaling, spam filtering, etc.

   - Take a look at some of the cool projects at OpenNTF such as DomBulletin, or any of the huge variety of Domino based solutions built by IBM Partners, the showcase floor at Lotusphere will have plenty of them! (Customer Relationship Management, HelpDesk / Customer Support, Human Resources, Inventory Management / Supply Chain Tracking, Project Management, Sales Force Automation, Product Catalogs/Price Lists, etc.)

1. 22  Chris Whisonant  | 1/15/2005 12:26:46 PM

   Alan, I agree. I try to do as much as possible to make Lotus products more visible in our company. I've upgraded every client to the 6.5.x releases to integrate the IM. We're developing applications and have had some custom developed to get us started. We have an Intranet and online employee directory, etc... that we didn't have just 2 years ago. We've come a long way and I'm going to keep pressing on. The direction I'm seeing from Lotus is great. Will I have to eventually get a Workplace environment? Probably. But that's going to open a whole new world of possibilities and I'll still be able to have my "legacy" Notes apps behind the scene.

   Frankly, Lotus is thriving. I can't wait for Lotusphere!

1. 23  Andrew Pollack http://www.thenorth.com/apblog | 1/15/2005 5:32:31 PM

   Hi Steve,

   The sad and frustrating thing is that the people who can really answer this definitively can't talk until Lotusphere.

   Beware the term "Plug-In" -- its eclipse lingo, but has connotations of secondary status which do not at all accurately reflect the state of things.

   I've already said, in presentations publically that were seen and approved by the various people at IBM, some things which will explain:

   The notes client code that runs in the workplace client, is lotus notes. All of it. A change has been made that allows it to run "reparented" within the windowing framework of eclipse. That's why its compatible -- because its compatible with itself. Nothing NDA about this part, its in a presentation I've delivered, Its in articles, and its in documentation (all be it obscure).

   Suddenly this week, lots of talk about a workplace designer.

   Suddenly this week, a clearer roadmap that calls for continued and extended interoperability.

   About the only thing I'd try to read into things before going to Lotusphere are:

   1. Its fairly clear that any territorial disputes are resolved, and all the teams are working toward common goals at this point.

   2. Since the press says they'll be releasing information about a new design tool, its fair to say that the market will make a decision about it when they see it. If its good, the platform will do well.

   3. As products get closer to public consumption, one of two things happen. Either the hype increases, new information that's increasingly detailed and exciting comes out, etc... as is this case --- or, as is much more frequent (particularly in Redmond) as deadlines come out, press releases begin the process of "managing expectations" and the end result is soon forgotten.

   Come to Lotusphere and decide.

1. 24  Simon Barratt  | 1/21/2005 11:13:26 AM

   Another little gem from Messagging Pipeline today:

   Cast Your Vote Now!

   Much to my surprise, and probably Sara Radicati's surprise, Lotus Notes/Domino and Microsoft Outlook/Exchange came out tied in our latest survey. While 20% of you used neither, 40% used one or the other.

   That got me to wondering how you split up your IM security and compliance strategies. The "Big Three" are Akonix, Facetime, and IMLogic, but there are others, and some of you don't use IM security technology at all. Some of you don't even use IM. Tell us about it.