InformIT: Domino is Not Dead: Why Now Is a Good Time to Consider a New Value Proposition, Part 1
December 25 2009
I don't know the author, but I like his confident posture in this article:
I have been a Domino developer for the past 13 years, and for as long as I have been working with the platform, I am continually surprised and dismayed to have to explain to technical recruiters or interviewers what Lotus Domino is and what you can do with it. My dismay is because although there are a few key features that make Domino stand out from other application development platforms, I've heard repeatedly throughout my tenure as a Domino developer that "Domino is dead."I hope in his subsequent chapters of this article, Martin will add to his storyline how new developers can get started with Domino....developer.lotus.com, OpenNTF.org, free Designer, etc...
Thus, I write this article to set things straight. ... In this article, I want to describe these features and show you how they can benefit your bottom line.
Link: InformIT: Domino is Not Dead: Why Now Is a Good Time to Consider a New Value Proposition, Part 1 >
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- 2
Henning Heinz | 12/26/2009 5:00:03 AM
The About page is a bit more pessimistic (or outdated).
Martin Leon[...], transitioning from the world of Domino development to developing Java-based software QA libraries, tools, environments, and procedures.
- 3
Jeff Gilfelt http://jeffgilfelt.com | 12/26/2009 7:15:08 AM
The "Domino is dead" catchphrase really means "Domino is no longer seen as a strategic development platform". If the author has to explain to technical recruiters what Domino is, I'm guessing that said technical recruiters probably aren't seeing much demand for those skills.
There is of course a market for Notes & Domino skills, but it is mostly filled by those who have been "doing Notes since 199x". Good developers aren't really interested in building trivial intranet apps or maintaining legacy code for poorly engineered Domino solutions.
Attracting new developers to a mature platform is always going to be a difficult problem, but giving away the Designer client for free is not going to magically solve it. Who/where are the developer advocates for Notes & Domino? How many of those who preach to the choir every year at Lotusphere present at other vendor-agnostic enterprise software conferences (like QCon)?
- 5
Jeff Gilfelt http://jeffgilfelt.com | 12/26/2009 10:39:32 AM
@4 - Developers are as important to the product as IBM's customers and partners, so run developer (NOT sales) focused events. Sponsor/participate in non-Lotus/IBM specific events. Start a developer relations program if you don't already have one. Find someone outside the Lotus community who is respected and passionate about the web, open standards and software development and hire them as Developer Advocate. With XPages you have a powerful and somewhat unique SSJS engine for rapid development, yet nobody in the JavaScript community has ever heard of it! So hire someone with a loud voice and make them hear about it.
The Android and App Engine teams at Google host regular IRC chats where developers can talk directly to the product engineers. Google, Adobe, Palm and many others provide product labs where developers get early access to pre-release software and can help shape its direction. Note this is NOT done through elitist "design partner" conference calls. The key is to be responsive to developers concerns, issues and input.
So basically, an "Ed Brill" for developers is what is needed.
- 7
Volker Weber http://vowe.net/about | 12/26/2009 4:49:41 PM
"I often feel like there is little recognition of what is already out there."
If tree falls in forest ...
I guess, what Jeff is saying is that you have to go to the developers: "yet nobody in the JavaScript community has ever heard of it"
- 8
Erik Brooks | 12/26/2009 6:36:24 PM
@5 - "So basically, an Ed Brill for developers is what is needed."
The guy's name is Angus McIntyre and he's Ed's peer (i.e. Ed's not his boss).
I'd love to see some externalized activity from him or somebody in his team.
@Ed - "but I often feel like there is little recognition of what is already out there."
You're right. XPages are stupid crazy powerful, even besting .Net 3.5 in some cases. Yet they've been out for a year (longer if you count beta timeframes) and nobody outside the bubble has heard of them. Therefore nobody will consider them.
The woefully inadequate amount of documentation may be part of the problem but the rest is just standard awareness that needs to be drummed up.
Interestingly enough, Dojo is in a somewhat similar boat: tons of IBM effort behind it, powerful capabilities, the obvious platform for IBM's web efforts across all Lotus products (and others) but... horrible documentation and awareness. JQuery is a far more popular library even though Dojo is superior in many ways. Hit the web and you'll see that the #1 cited reason is documentation. Documentation obviously isn't the magic bullet here, but it does play a part.
Keep in mind that the Notes/Domino app dev marketing during the Dark Years was virtually nil -- you (or is it Angus?) definitely has an uphill battle to fight here.
- 9
Rob McDonagh http://www.CaptainOblivious.com | 12/26/2009 6:58:43 PM
@Ed - Doesn't the ISV team work with business partners? That's what ISV means, right? Who works with the non-BP developers? Who works with the development groups at customer sites (I have a fair amount of experience in this area, so if I don't know the answer, that's probably not a good sign)? Who evangelizes at the university level? The secondary education (high school, in US terms) level? And, if there are people doing these jobs (quietly), what credentials do they bring that other developers would respect? Why should the JavaScript development community, as Jeff mentioned, pay attention to SSJS and XPages?
- 10
Erik Brooks | 12/26/2009 10:20:41 PM
Rob @9 mentions another big piece that I've been saying is missing for a long time -- the university/college/secondary ed. angle.
I'm one of the youngest in the Yellowverse with a formal Computer Science background. I'm 33, I graduated in '99. I continue to have constant contact with grads coming out of the IT, IS, MIS, and Comp. Sci. departments of a few major US universities. Students' exposure to Microsoft and (surprisingly) Oracle technology is significant. Eclipse, Java, and other Open Source exposure is huge. Lotus app dev exposure is virutally zero.
I have 27 years of programming experience across dozens of platforms and languages, and N/D app dev tops them all as a general R.A.D. solution for business. But the only reason I knew of it at all when I graduated is because I worked with Nathan right out of college. There's much room for improvement there.
- 11
Bruce Elgort http://elguji.com | 12/26/2009 11:11:59 PM
@Erik - you are 33 years old and have 27 years of programming experience - now that's impressive. I was 18 when I first started programming Fortran IV in college.
- 12
Erik Brooks | 12/27/2009 9:44:37 AM
@11 - I cut my teeth with BASIC on the Commodore 64. :-)
- 13
Brent Henry http://www.enterinfosystems.com | 12/27/2009 12:53:02 PM
@12 - I started programming on a Commodore PET. The C64 came later but I only used it for games.
I like to browse through the programming section of my local bookstore and will take the time to read a chapter or two of some new language, framework, javascript library, CMS, or whatever piques my interest.
Books have been written about every obscure language and platform imaginable and yet there is not a single book about Lotus Notes/Domino currently on the shelf. Has there even been a book written for developers since the Lotus Notes and Domino 6 Programming Bible? (Which I own)
I think the argument could be made that the market has already spoken (Via the publishing market). The real question is can anything be done to rectify the situation before it is too late?
- 14
Bruce Elgort http://elguji.com | 12/27/2009 3:47:28 PM
@13 - the same can be said about SAP. You don't see a single book on SAP ABAP or anything else SAP yet, the platform continues to grow and flourish in the ERP market.
- 15
Bruce Elgort http://elguji.com | 12/27/2009 3:57:07 PM
@13 - here is an R8 upgrade book I came across on Amazon { Link }
- 16
Brent Henry http://www.enterinfosystems.com | 12/27/2009 4:47:46 PM
@14 - I do see SAP books at the store I frequent and there are a wide variety of books written about SAP programming topics.
SAP also makes it easy to find these books -> { Link }
- 17
Mark Hughes | 12/28/2009 8:17:24 AM
@Eric, good to see other Lotus Notes Developers of a similar age.
For me it was second grade and basic on an Apple IIe.
- 18
Charles Robinson http://www.cubert.net | 12/28/2009 10:42:25 AM
@6 - Ed - "... I often feel like there is little recognition of what is already out there."
The problem for me has been finding what information is available. The first place I go -- and this might shock you -- is the product help. The "What's New" section of Designer help in previous versions was very useful. Starting somewhere in the R8 line all the help got merged together, making it much more difficult to find stuff. You have to know to go to the "What's New" section for the product you want, even though you're currently *IN* that product.
This is a recurring theme. Press F1 like you would in previous Notes or Designer releases and you get a very unhelpful sidebar telling you how to search help. You have to click Search at the bottom and type in what you had under your cursor, and even then you're going to get a mix of results from Notes, Designer and Administrator unless you customize the search Scopes. The help system in Notes has become nearly unusable.
When I turn to developerWorks I find an overwhelming (dis)array of product wikis and information centers. I finally made my way to the 8.5.1 documentation page { Link } and clicked the link for HTML (view only) { Link } . I ended up with this helpful page:
"The topic that you have requested is not available. The link may be wrong, or you may not have the corresponding product feature installed. This online help only includes documentation for features that are installed."
Make the information easier to find and advertise it better and people might find it.
- 20
Fredrik Malmborg | 1/4/2010 1:50:36 AM
Just before the holidays I was contacted by a Microsoft representative. They offer me something called WebsiteSpark,it is a package of software for developing for the web, almost for free.
The fact is I am a Lotus geek. But it would be stupid to not see the value in that offer. I am afraid IBM Lotus does not call the developers on other platforms to tell them about the free Designer.
I feel strongly about doing my part to keep the customers aware about the values of our formidable platform. But as others have mentioned it is very important to actively plant the seeds of the Lotus offerings into the minds of talented young students.
I recall an initiative in Sweden almost 10 years ago, IBM partnered with others to put unemployeed youngsters into a customized education program with focus on Notes and Domino.
I am afraid those students are still among the "youngest" in our sphere.
I am confident about my current profession and focus. Ed you are a great source of inspiration. Chris Toohey as well.
Something totaly different, is it only me that find My developerWorks too slow in loading pages?
- 21
Janez | 1/4/2010 5:42:02 AM
Hi there,
I'm a nu-age Domino Developer (working on Domino since 2005). And I must confess that it has been PITA to recruit other people my age - they just refuse to work on this platform - and I myself am not sure how much longer I'm going to keep up with it.
This is not about why people don't buy Domino and recruit developers its about why people refuse to work on Domino.
Issues:
1. Nobody knows about LND anymore (even IBM people ask if Domino still exist) - I know I'm flossing a dead horse but M$ did their homework while IBM keeps on failing.
2. There has been an initiative at our University to teach LND - but it all went sour when basically only thing presented was usage of @formulas - imagine a young guy doing a side by side comparison (LN Client + @formula vs .NET vs J2EE). What I mean is - IBM clearly does not care about developers (enough). Point being that DD is hideous (comparing to Eclipse and Visual Studio). Especially if you're a Java developer (DDE is still pretty rare!) and most kids nowadays learn JAVA. (DDE Fails: - where is my debugger? where is my refactoring tool? why can't I do any automated unit testing?...).
3. Domino WEB development: Don't get me started here - what IBM teaches as Domino Way is archaic and completely unacceptable (a banal example - where is PNG support).
4. xPages? Great IBM reused a part of Workplace and half-***** integrated it into Notes/Domino - where is my documentation,... Also we miss any (real) control over what's going on (we know we are going to wait for bugfixes for eternity. I believe that SSJS is awesome - however where is my debugger (again!).
5. LotusScript - why does it seem that any further progress on this front stopped (how about some new features? Like overloading,unit testing, interop. with other languages, native JSON support, etc.).
6. Overall reliability - the deeper I dig into LND platform the more it seems that I just start looking for workarounds right off the bat (DXL, various UI glitches, barely usable view JSON output, overall non-confirmation of standards,...)
7. Legacy limits (64kb field limit,...).
I do have to admit that alot has been done with R8.5.1 but it still feels half-baked - especially on the IDE front - while <R8 IDE felt like 199x the R8.5.1 feels like something done in 2002.
On development front Domino R8.x still feels like too little too late and I'm really concerned that continuing work on this platform is a career dead-end.
- 22
Rich Bayless | 1/13/2010 1:06:40 PM
Ed,
I gotta' agree with Janez!!!
I've been an IT programmer for 20 years - mostly doing Notes/Domino development work - but I've also programmed in COBOL, VB, and other languages.
While I absolutely love the Notes development environment, I have serious doubts about its future. And, based on this LinkedIn discussion thread, it appears I'm not alone:
{ Link }
Can you give us developers a little hope for the future?
(While the "Lotus Knows" advertising campaign is looooooong overdue - and certainly a step in the right direction - it doesn't seem to provide the motivation that actual corporate executives need to get them to re-evaluate their positions on Notes/Domino.)
- 23
Martin Leon | 1/14/2010 12:58:29 PM
Regarding Janez comments:
People will pursue skills in platforms and technologies where there's work to be done and money to be made. It's ignorant to say that people refuse to work on Domino based on your "issues" which reveal that you haven't really learned that much about what you can do with Domino since 2005.
1. IBM is huge! I'm sure there are few people at IBM that know about everything that IBM does. Companies are still using Domion and IBM still makes money selling it, look at slide #3: { Link }
M$ did their homework and IBM keeps failing? What are you talking about?
2. Learning to develop for the Domino platform, you SHOULD start with @formulas, starting at the simplest layer of development available in the platform. Your young guy doing the comparison should be comparing SharePoint and Domino, not LN Client + @Formula. If he dug a little deeper he'd find out about the LotusScript and Java capabilities of Domino and could make a better comparison. Judging the product as uninviting or uninteresting based on an introductory college course is setting up a straw man.
3. I don't know what you are referring to as the "Domino Way" of web development, but I never found myself unable to implement any feature in a web site that was either required or looked interesting or promising using the Domino platform, including use of AJAX and JSON and JS APIs like Dojo or Yui. Could it be easier in some cases? Yes. But archaic? I don't know what you're talking about.
4. No experience with XPages, so I can't speak to this
5. How far has VBA progressed in the last few years? LotusScript overloading? Does VB have overloading? If you need overloading and unit testing use Java! Interoperability? You can define methods that come from external libraries, either native code from DLLs or exposing COM objects from other VBA products like MS Office.
6. Reliability is an issue because of workarounds? I don't understand your complaint. Barely usable JSON output? What do you want? I think it's great that with a simple addition to a URL you can choose to have your view data delivered in XML, JSON or text! DXL? If you only knew what you could do with it! Non-confirmation of standards? Please get a dictionary.
7. Legacy limits? Every platform has limits. If 64k isn't enough for you, don't use a text field, use a Rich Text field!
I do think that IBM doesn't have the marketing panache or whatever you want to call it that Microsoft does. Domino beats the tar out of SharePoint in many respects but for some reason SharePoint seems to be more and more popular. This is an area where I feel IBM hasn't made the same level of effort as Microsoft, but this is only my perception, I don't have any facts to base this on.
My concern about the platform's longevity has more to do with ignorance of what it can do and how it works (your post is an excellent example). Many companies don't realize how much use they can get out of it, probably because not many developers and IT types bother to dig that deep into it.
Unfortunately for me, the economic downturn combined with a series of missteps by Boeing and other events beyond their control resulted in me losing my contract gig at Boeing where I was doing Domino development for 9 years. But I consider it a mixed blessing because now I'm learning stuff I didn't have to learn before and making myself more marketable. Good development skills can be learned even in the Domino environment, and what I learned while pushing Domino to the limit gave me the foot in the door for a new career. But I still don't agree that it's dead.
{ Link }
- 24
Bachi | 7/13/2011 10:17:30 AM
Xpages is on for more than a year now, are we having enough openings in the market, otherwards is IBM trying to push Domino as messaging or application platform.
Good article -- although a tiny bit shaky on some of the details (both historical and technical).