John Head is live-blogging the Collaboration University keynotes

September 10 2007

John Head has posted already covering my opening keynote, and is sitting in the back of the room typing away while Mary Beth Raven speaks on Notes 8.

Ed Brill Collaboration University Category:  Lotus  Add/View Comments [32]

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  1. 1  Stuart McIntyre http://quickrblog.com | 9/10/2007 11:11:36 AM

    "Mac beta in 8.0.1" ;-(

  1. 2  John Head http://www.psclistens.com | 9/10/2007 11:34:59 AM

    MBR blog entry posted Ed

    @1 Stuart - as much as I want to get all worked up about this, the Notes 8 Mac client needs the next version of eclipse. We are better off having this be right the first time than go thru a Notes release like the sametime 7.5 mac release

  1. 3  Danny Lawrence  | 9/10/2007 11:48:50 AM

    So Ed, is this a realtime blog post about John's realtime blogging about Mary Beth's presentation? Is anyone there actually listening to her? :-)

  1. 4  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 9/10/2007 3:24:57 PM

    One thing I forgot to mention on the Mac point is that in 7.0.3, we'll be adding Java agent support to the Notes / Mac client. (Java applets are still not supported)

  1. 5  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 9/10/2007 3:32:47 PM

    That is a good one. Applets are not important, agents are.

  1. 6  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 9/10/2007 3:50:39 PM

    @5 - Is that sarcasm? I can't tell.

  1. 7  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 9/10/2007 4:03:26 PM

    And no, I'm not being sarcastic. :-)

  1. 8  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 9/10/2007 4:14:54 PM

    No, John, it is not sarcasm.

  1. 9  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 9/10/2007 4:41:18 PM

    @4: splendid, at long last! And agreed, applets don't matter nearly as much as agents - Nathan you need to chill man ;o)

  1. 10  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 9/10/2007 5:01:26 PM

    @9 - *sigh* Once again... someone thinks they need to "read subtext."

    I really couldn't tell. "That is a good one" can be a sarcastic comment in the States. Cases in point...

    { Link }

    { Link }

    It's a sarcastic tone in those examples. I honestly didn't know if Volker was trying make fun of the implementation decision, or if he was enthusiastic about the step forward.

    I was perfectly chill, sir... merely confused.

    And yes, hooray for improved Mac java support. The Apple guys do NOT make that effort easy.

  1. 11  Richard Schwartz http://www.rhs.com/poweroftheschwartz | 9/10/2007 6:06:50 PM

    Java agent support in 7.0.3 on the Mac? Excellent! Long overdue, but excellent.

  1. 12  Mike Brown  | 9/10/2007 9:10:21 PM

    If the Mac client is "beta in 8.0.1", what time frame are we looking at for the Gold release?

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 13  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 9/10/2007 9:15:25 PM

    @12 since the plan isn't approved, I can't say for certain. For now I can only say "later in 2008". There's an internal target, but again, since we're not finalized on it, I don't want to set expectations one way or another yet.

  1. 14  Bruce Elgort http://www.BruceElgort.com | 9/10/2007 9:23:59 PM

    @All,

    Are you seeing more and more staff using Macs in the enterprise? I am seeing more and more in my industry is which is consumer electronics. We have seen entire divisions moving to macs. Inquiring minds want to know.

  1. 15  Mike Brown  | 9/10/2007 9:44:58 PM

    @13 Thanks for the response, Ed.

    @All

    Is anybody au fait with the nature of these Mac/Eclipse issues - specifically, why Notes Mac needs the next version - or can point me to where such issues are being discussed?

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 16  Stuart McIntyre http://quickrblog.com | 9/11/2007 12:16:59 AM

    Good news about the Java agents on the Mac.

    Ed, I haven't heard much about the DominoBlog template recently, but know that Steve Castledine has been doing a lot of work in this area.

    Any thoughts on whether we will see updates in this area at 7.0.3 and/or 8.0.1?

  1. 17  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 9/11/2007 6:57:07 AM

    @16 Steve is indeed working on some updates to the blog template. I do not know when they will be released.

  1. 18  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 9/11/2007 7:26:30 AM

    @14 - I've never worked anywhere that used any Mac's at all. I've only worked in relatively small companies, though.

    @15 - It's basically internationalization and support for visually impaired users. Nathan explained it pretty well on Ben Poole's blog: { Link } .

  1. 19  tony pope http://filmfabric.com | 9/11/2007 8:19:35 AM

    @10 "Are Mac users smug and arrogant?"

    { Link }

    Now there is a topic for discussion :)

  1. 20  Randy Smith  | 9/11/2007 8:30:20 AM

    @14 & @18 - Whether or not more staff are using Macs these days, I think more would *like* to use them if they were given a preference (assuming software limitations were not an issue). I've purchased two laptops recently, each with XP as the OS. Actually, for my most recent laptop purchase, a Dell, the only choice for the OS that I was given was "Hasta La Vista". I was so frustrated with the slow performance (incompatibilities with my existing hardware/software, etc., etc. etc.) that I returned it within a couple of days. I considered going with a Mac, but the sales rep told me that they could now offer XP as an alternative OS choice. I should have gone with the Mac.

  1. 21  Rob Novak http://www.LotusRockStar.com | 9/11/2007 8:52:45 AM

    @20 - With Parallels, Fusion or Boot Camp you can also have XP on your Mac. I've seen myself go from about 80/20 PC use - in a month - to almost 60/40 Mac, and I'm still getting my work done. :-) I am becoming one of those anxious for Mac Notes, though I imagine I'll still have to launch the VM for Designer for a while.

  1. 22  Stuart McIntyre http://lotusconnectionsblog.com | 9/11/2007 9:20:05 AM

    @21 Definitely. I use both VMWare and Parallels for demo/test purposes, and it's great to have them there. However, what most folks find, as you have Rob, is that over time the natural progression is to use OS-X more and more for daily tasks/browsing/office tools etc.

    Thats why the Notes8 client for Mac is so key to giving users (key influencers, consultants, execs etc.) and corporate IT departments more choice, more reason to switch away from Redmond products, and therefore more reason to consider Lotus solutions.

    I can see the reasons why IBM has invested so much in Linux over the past 5 years, and why the Linux server platform is so important. However, I just wish that even 10% of that investment had gone to building clients and development tools for OS-X. I am convinced that the rate of users switching off Windows to Mac would have been 10x that of users switching from Windows to Linux as a result.

    Lastly, I remain hopeful that once Domino Designer/Admin are ported to the Expeditor platform (Domino 9?) then the additional cost of putting it on Mac and Linux will be insubstantial enough to make it a possibility...

  1. 23  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 9/11/2007 10:07:25 AM

    As an Apple fanboy I've never fully understood the charges about Apple not making Java easy... at least they've made OS X a decent Java platform (OS 9 and releases previous didn't do very well on that front).

    After all, Sun don't make a JVM for OS X, yet they do for Windows -- an OS whose creator is considerably more anti-Java than Apple, I would contend...

    :o)

  1. 24  John Head http://www.psclistens.com | 9/11/2007 10:51:31 AM

    @22 Stuart - the cost is not in the porting, but in the testing and all of that. Someone has to show how that cost, which is significant (you can not jsut do English) is justified. While I would love to have Admin and Designer on Mac natively, not a bet I would take.

    @23 Ben, in my discussions with the OpenOffice.org community as they work away on the mac version, I have learned that because Java is built into the OS and it is hard to use your own jvm instead, it makes things difficult from a platform level. I guess the coming version of OSX 10.5 is going to make it easier. We shall see.

  1. 25  tony  | 9/11/2007 11:07:18 AM

    @22: Is the 60/40 Mac usage due to using XP on the mac, or using mac osx apps?

  1. 26  Bill Malchisky  | 9/11/2007 11:32:21 AM

    @14 -- Yes, seeing more Mac penetration into business and home user markets. Much of the feedback is that the maintenance and crashes on Windows are really forcing this. "Macs are a lot easier," is a common input thread.

    I purchased my first iMac in DEC and love it. It just runs...whereas my XP machines needs a lot of coddling and extra care to keep it running smoothly--and it will still lock-up or crash every couple of months.

    So, Notes on Mac would be welcomed.

  1. 27  Axel  | 9/11/2007 3:42:01 PM

    Worldwide there might be less notes users with a mac than this wonderfull OS is mentioned by the comentaristas on edbrill.com in a week. (just wanted to mention. we are too old for flame war, anyway).

    Good to see new energy in the products.

  1. 28  Stuart McIntyre http://lotusconnectionsblog.com | 9/11/2007 3:56:21 PM

    @27 Fair comment - be interesting to know the numbers of downloads of the 7.0.2 Mac Client vs the Linux or Windows ones...

  1. 29  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.GeniiSoft.com/showcase.nsf/GeniiBlog | 9/11/2007 4:24:14 PM

    @28 - Pretty hard to measure. Imagine a company with 2000 users, ten of them Macs, the rest Windows. Imagine I am the IT guy in charging of getting Notes, so I download one Windows and one Mac copy. Or it could be the opposite ration, and I'd do the same.

  1. 30  Rob Novak http://www.LotusRockStar.com | 9/11/2007 4:56:04 PM

    @25 - more Mac native apps. iTunes (primarily for TV and the two industry podcasts) has been converted. Image software. RSS reader. Some IM. I even create an SSH tunel and VNC thru it to my Windows servers all in native Mac. Going to write a post on that on soon, it's quite cool. All the design work for Collaboration University was done on a Mac, converted from doing it on PC. I open VMWare for Notes, to get old Powerpoints and files, and Eclipse (for now).

  1. 31  Rob Novak http://www.LotusRockStar.com | 9/11/2007 4:56:04 PM

    @25 - more Mac native apps. iTunes (primarily for TV and the two industry podcasts) has been converted. Image software. RSS reader. Some IM. I even create an SSH tunel and VNC thru it to my Windows servers all in native Mac. Going to write a post on that on soon, it's quite cool. All the design work for Collaboration University was done on a Mac, converted from doing it on PC. I open VMWare for Notes, to get old Powerpoints and files, and Eclipse (for now).

  1. 32  Axel  | 9/12/2007 3:25:54 AM

    Combining my maybe prejudices about Apple and javaposse podcast consumption, the time lag of implementing the newest java versions may be due to the fact that Apples comparative advantage is on frontend and Java on the other hand is currently much stronger on the backend (Application servers, Messaging Systems like Websphere MQ or Apache MQ/Camel, IONA, etc.). Afaik Apple itself uses a lot of Java for their backend-heavy e-commerce stuff (for example Apple Store).