Ed Brill

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1. 1  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.GeniiSoft.com/showcase.nsf/GeniiBlog | 3/10/2009 8:19:49 PM

   Ed,

   Just to confirm what you say a little bit, I have not had a single complaint from anybody at IBM about any of my occasionally obnoxious rants about rich text rendering to MIME/HTML and back. I have had a few non-IBMers say they think the posts are too negative, but I have had various IBM folks at Lotusphere and elsewhere say very positive things about iFidelity and the work I am doing, and also comment that my points are well made and reasonable. Nobody at IBM has tried to discourage me or tell me that I can't or shouldn't gripe about these things. Instead, I have been sought out by IBMers curious about the test cases I use and eager to see demonstrations of specific issues.

   As for PlanetLotus, it is a wonderful resource, but certainly tempts all of us ASWs with its counts and "Hot Bloggers" and such. I'd say I'll try to resist, but it is likely I won't. It is just too much fun writing the provocative titles.

   Ben

1. 2  Christopher Byrne http://www.controlscaddy.com/ | 3/10/2009 8:28:00 PM

   All I am going to address in this public reply is about the file naming convention: people (BPs AND Customers) have complained and moaned about this for years, both publicly and privately. And this discussion has included the three-headed mutation of a freak called the IBM download sites.

   Yet nothing has been done to fix this embarrassment of a process. Yet only now we hear a voice like your's from IBM say

   "I was silently cheering "right on!" and trying to figure out how I could climb the mountain to do something about it. "

   I know you are sincerely believe in what you are saying and doing, but it is really, really hard to read with a straight face from any IBMer (that is still standing after the bloodbath).

   p.s. And about PlanetLotus headlines? You have to write provocative headlines to get seen through the noise.

1. 3  Christopher Byrne http://www.controlscaddy.com/ | 3/10/2009 8:29:34 PM

   p.p.s. If you are going to mention a post by somebody, please link to the post and not the root page. We do not want to have to dig for the post like we are trying to find the latest download file from IBM:-)

1. 4  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2009 8:45:48 PM

   @2 I think you missed my point. ... but say what you want and how you want to for desired outcome :-) and @3, I was trying to talk about people, not their specific writing. In both Ben and Duffbert's cases, I'm referring to multiple entries -- so I couldn't really deep link.

1. 5  Mike Brown  | 3/10/2009 9:24:28 PM

   @Ed,

   Re: "a potty-mouthed Mac blogger tore the Notes installer on Mac to shreds"

   I'd like to see that too. Can you ping me off-line if you don't want to post the link here?

   I happened to install Notes 8.5 on my Macbook Pro last night and had no problems whatsoever. So, I'd like to know what the guy thought he'd found.

1. 6  Andrew Pollack http://www.thenorth.com | 3/10/2009 9:38:39 PM

   I'm not known for holding back when it comes to being critical of the product or even the management team when it comes to bad decisions (in my own opinion). -- MOST -- of the time, this opinions are met with reasonable feedback. There have been times -- and we've discussed them privately -- when the reaction has been less appropriately measured.

   In the end, I've always said "Big deal". If you're going to take a swing at someone, you'd best expect every now and then someone is going to swing back. You'd be just man up and move on.

   What surprised me about Bill's posting and some of the reaction to it, is that people think its a huge deal that they'd be using other software. I don't get that. I write code in Visual Studio .NET and in Lotus Domino Designer, and sometimes pure Java via Eclipse or even Joe (joe's own editor) in Linux for c++ work.

   I'm as die-hard a supporter of the Notes/Domino platform as you'll find, and I have been for something close to 17 years now. That doesn't mean I wouldn't drop it in a cold minute if something came along that would let me make my customers happy faster, cheaper, and more easily. So far, there isn't. Not from Microsoft, not from the Open Source world, and not even from IBM -- though all have tried several times.

1. 7  Brad  | 3/11/2009 2:26:00 AM

   I fully agree with Paul Mooney's assesment of the IBM download site. It's possible that I may have seen a more convoluted, confusing, and maddening system for finding and downloading software before - I just can't remember when. I know that IBM have a large range of software with multiple versions going back for YEARS that can be downloaded by customers, but at least they could make it easier to find the more recent versions of software. If I'm looking for R5 of Domino, then fine if I have to trawl around for a while to find it, but I don't want to do the same for Sametime 8.0.2!!! So, if you're going to climb up the mountain to try to fix this problem, then consider something like this { Link } for the most frequently downloaded and newer versions of software - KISS!

1. 8  Gerald Mengisen  | 3/11/2009 2:50:30 AM

   @7

   You kind of get what you are asking for in the "Popular Downloads" section of the download site (at least I see such a link in the PartnerWorld download site; not sure if the Passport download site shows the same). So things have improved a little bit, but there remains definitely lots of room for further improvement.

1. 9  Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 3/11/2009 4:27:02 AM

   Its hardly surprising that my posting is being mischaracterised as some sort of template for all that is ill with the world.

   You have reheated this entire conversation without addressing my core issue. That is, that IBM does not respond satisfactorily to issues raised (repeatedly) by long-standing business partners. (And let us remember that none that I had raised was new nor surprising to you or IBM in general)

   The messages of support on my blog and the other 50+ messages in my inbox, from BP's both large and small around the world indicate that there is a level of support for my arguments that even I didn't anticipate.

   I'm also rather surprised by Mr Pollock - chairman of the Penumbra pressure group till January, originally formed all those years ago to help promote small BPs to IBM - who spent a few hours with Mr Picciano at Lotusphere over supper - to completely miss the focus of my central assertion.

   One can only presume that Mr Pollock has still some channels within IBM available to him to pass on Penumbra's concerns to IBM. I, as you know, had the last possible channel slammed in my face early last week - hence the public airing (after years of being ignored) of all these issues.

   (Disclosure: I was a member of Penumbra for a while too. And these issues were not answered using that forum either)

   And yet - we're back to the far more minor point of 'IBM does not control the conversation'. After being on the receiving end of your 'cajoling' last summer, I completely disagree with you.

   In summary, I heartily disagree with your argument and state again that:

   - IBM tries to control the conversation. Sometimes well, and sometimes badly. I don't see what your issue with this is. MS tries to control its conversation, as do all other industry players. I guess the difference is that all other industry players actually spend money on PR and Advertising to build their brand.

   - IBM does not listen to bloggers and small customers. IBM only listens to LOLA. IBM does not seem to understand that Notes is a consumer style product, touching the lives of up to 150m users.

   - IBM most certainly does not (in my experience) listen to small to medium sized business partners. And as I have learnt this week from my inbox, actually does a fairly bad job of listening to large business partners too. Even you admit the Design Partner program was less about harvesting ideas from us, more about getting confirmation. From my POV, it seemed more about getting people inside the tent, pissing out (to quote Custer).

   I guess given the events of last week you have got to try and get back on top of the conversations, to try and drive the agenda again. But this ? Reheating this old chestnut?

   As you are our self-appointed 'Air-Cover', we have to expect you have to respond to most Lotus-based blog threads online, as you have been doing for some years now.

   But instead of trying to control the conversation, why not address some of the issues that I (and many other BP's and Customers) have been asking for all these years ? Or give us the name of someone who has the power to fix these issues ?

   Actual Marketing ? A working BP program ? A working passport/BP download site ? IBM not completing with BP's in the same account, as they repeatedly claim?

   Lotus Domino/Notes 85 is a FANTASTIC product. Its the best that there has ever been. Okay, some bugs (nothing serious), but the amount of polish, work, etc, is amazing. The people who have created that for IBM are at the top of their game. Upgrade to it, see for yourself.

   Why does IBM then completely waste that technology lead by failing to market the product ? Failing to support its business partners?

   I really didn't want to reignite the conversation, especially on your blog, as I didn't want to upset the 'Little Yellow Bubble'. This is why I asked Yancy to remove me from PlanetLotus.org. But if you insist in mischaracterising the intention and the content of my post, then I have no alternative but to defend myself.

   ---* Bill

   My original blog thread is here if you missed it: { Link }

1. 10  Gab Davis http://blog.turtleweb.com | 3/11/2009 5:58:25 AM

   @Bill whatever your issues with Andrew or view point, Penumbra isn't a pressure group of any kind and you know that since you were both a member and a board member.

   Penumbra is a consortium of like minded business partners working with lotus collaborative technologies. That's it.

   The Board this year consists of Andrew, myself and Carl Tyler. Andrew speaks for himself as do we all.

   I have nothing else to say.

   Gab

1. 11  Brad  | 3/11/2009 6:12:46 AM

   @8

   The site has improved a little in recent months, but it still leaves much to be desired. The Passport download site has a nicer wrapper on it, but once you get into the guts it's still the same hard to use beast. But, I'm just repeating the same thing thousands others have - hopefully IBM will start listening sooner than later...

1. 12  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/11/2009 8:04:58 AM

   @All regarding download site -- I get the point. Really I do. It's so far outside my responsibility within Lotus that honestly, I'm not sure where to begin the journey to try to get it sorted. But it's on the "someday/maybe" list as GTD practitioners would say. I've never previously been in a position where my voice on the issue would have mattered, but maybe now it will. I can't say. But I hear your frustration and I know it first-hand (we use the same download system for internal access).

   @9 Bill, I guess you did something more like two-weeks' notice than resign outright? At any rate, I never mentioned you in this posting and am not sure it was ever about your resignation posting. I was reacting more to the pull quote from Bruce's blog and some other noise of the last several days.

   At any rate, I strongly and sharply disagree with "IBM does not listen to bloggers and small customers. IBM only listens to LOLA. IBM does not seem to understand that Notes is a consumer style product, touching the lives of up to 150m users." Do you think that I and the other execs go and do all these LCTYs and Lotusphere itself so we can talk to the big customers that also come through our briefing center, get met with at their offices, etc.? In fact I probably get more interaction with partners and SMB customers than I do with enterprise customers, since the enterprise customers are often talking to priority support managers, IT architects, and other IBMers before they get to product management. Anyone can comment here and yesterday this site went over 40,000 active comments (non-spam...40,009 to be precise). I can't claim huge wins yet so far in my new role but when you see things like IBM exhibiting at MacWorld (talking to consumers and end-users), there are definite steps well beyond the enterprise market. Last week I took steps to streamline the number of offerings we have in the small business market, where I believe the overlapping ways of selling Notes were too confusing and therefore leading people to give up. My team is working on other products and promotions and the like.

   I'm not out to pick or continue a fight with this posting, and I certainly don't regret voicing what it seems many have wanted to hear from IBM in the last few days. This isn't about whatever door you perceive was "slammed in [your] face" -- the way I read it, you closed the door yourself. You've made your decision and have support for it from people you've known and worked with for many years. If that is your choice, so be it. For everyone else, I wanted there to be a sense as to how we at IBM were reacting to discussion of the last few days, and based on pings, e-mails, and comments here, it seems like that was the right thing to do.

1. 13  Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 3/11/2009 8:46:11 AM

   @Gab -sorry if I misrepresented Penumrba. And he's me thinking during my time in the group and on my time on the board that we were there to represent Penumbra members viewpoints to senior IBM staff. It was formed, I seem to recall, to ensure that IBM actually listened to small Business Partners. Why else spend $20k or more buying supper for Lotus senior management ?

   I guess instead of 'pressure group', we could say 'networking group'.

   Hence my comment to make clear that Andrews position is that of a senior member of this group, and having far more access to senior IBM management than many BP's far larger than Andrews.

   For instance, I didnt gaze into Bob Picciano's eyes over a candlelit dinner for a couple of hours. ;-)

   @12 Sorry to be picky Ed.

   Did you intentionally set up paragraph one and three of response 12 to disagree with each other ? That kind of rests my case. We've all known for a long time the downloads is really broken, everyone (not just myself) have told IBM, and nothing has been done. Same with Marketing, BP program, partnering/competing with IBM, etc.

   I appreciate its not in your remit. Its not in Chris Wongs remit either. Nor Brent Peters. Give us the name of the person who *is* responsible, and we'll go lobby him instead.

   Chris Wong told us to 'drop a coin' and rat on people within IBM not doing their jobs. This could be an excellent use of that system.

   And secondly, I blogged my frustrations as I felt that my last available channel within IBM 'slammed in my face'. I felt that since these issues had been outstanding for years - up to 9 years - that it was time to do something positive in my situation, air them publicly, and move on.

   But lets be clear. I felt the door was slammed in my face.

   ---* Bill

1. 14  Andrew Pollack http://www.thenorth.com | 3/11/2009 11:09:47 AM

   Ignoring the use of my name as part of the argument -- as its not relevant and stems from issues outside this discussion -- let me make the following comments:

   Penumbra gets some attention from IBM precisely because its members when taken as a whole provide a wider perspective on the industry than any one partner can. It was formed before blogs at a time when individual small businesses simply weren't able to gain traction at IBM.

   My own "Access" to people at IBM comes from 17 years of participation in its programs. As to having a door slammed on Bill -- I don't know the story, don't want to know the story, and won't speculate on what would transpire that would cause such a thing.

   Finally:

   There is a difference between not listening, and not agreeing. There's even a difference between agreeing and being ready, willing, or able to take action when you do agree. I tell my kids "Just because I don't agree, doesn't mean I don't understand."

   IBM doesn't market or advertise as well as Microsoft. That's my opinion, clearly Bill shares it, others do as well. There are specific things that I think they should do about it. Some are starting to happen, others are not. That's bad for IBM and makes me more willing to try other tools that come out -- so far, they aren't as good. That's not news.

   Looking for other vendors to partner with and other directions to focus your business is smart. Burning bridges and storming off in a huff is foolish. In 17 years, I've never had anyone at IBM slam the door in my face. It's true I frequently don't get what I want (and sometimes for customers its pretty important stuff in my opinion) -- but I can't begin to say how crazy it sounds to me to think I'd been ignored. Never ignored. Not once. My recommendations aren't taken as often as I would like -- but doesn't anyone really expect they will?

   I know IBM listens more and better than any other vendors I've worked with.

1. 15  Henning Heinz  | 3/11/2009 1:08:45 PM

   Although I run into danger being called the Heini trying to be sarcastic again. I already said on Andrew Pollacks blog. The last days have brought some topics that had a somewhat negative touch but for a long time most topics have been positive. As many others I read PlanetLotus and other sources and even in the last days I would say far more than 90% of all Lotus related topics are either positive or just technical (or both). And even the sad stories like GSK just had a counterpart with 40.000 Continental users being switched from Exchange to Notes (the last big story I remember was Viag Interkom, now O2 Germany). From my opinion the feedback about IBM Lotus has long not been as good as in 2009 and still I read headlines like "Why all negative". So I keep asking myself. Is that little negative feedback still too much? Doesn't the so far overwhelming positive feedback not outweigh the few issues still being raised? Some years ago when the German Heise forum was famous for their high quality comments I always thought that the day people will stop complaining about Notes, Notes will be dead.

1. 16  Mike McP http://www.openntf.com/mPortal | 3/11/2009 3:36:02 PM

   Personally, I could do without the soap operas & sensationalism, I just want Notes to move forward confidently. Quite possible that it can't happen without this form of interaction, and then it's a necessary evil that I can live with. This is I guess the downside of interacting with the community. On one side you make yourself a target by asking for feedback and then you don't act as the customers expect, and if you close the door to avoid that (err, slam it?) you're screwed there too.

   We are I believe at the point where the product is ROCK solid...I firmly believe it out-classes most in the category for the money with R8/8.5. If IBM can't figure out how to succeed and get this product more positive attention, then this is a case-study that should be covered in all business classes as 'how not to mess up a sure thing'. People finally asking for collaboration and savings, a mainstay of Domino for 10 years, and in the middle we have this wacky in-fighting between BPs, CIOs, and corporate types?

1. 17  christophe http://www.cocomment.com/comments/lec | 3/11/2009 11:27:43 PM

   Hi,

   Why do you say that coComment "tried" to make the conversation more active ?

   By using our browser extension, you can track the conversation and get notified when new comments are entered (RSS feed, browser extension, email, web site). Commenters can then come back to your blog page (we do not enable commenting outside of your blog) and continue to participate.

   This way, you do not have to register to individual comment RSS feeds or receive tons of emails: all the conversations you track are centralized in a single notification channel.

1. 18  Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 3/12/2009 3:59:17 AM

   Ah. In terms of this conversation thread, Christopher Wong has now been promoted - congratulations Chris - and may not be the relevant person anymore.

   { Link }

   --* Bill

1. 19  Kevin Mort http://www.theglobalmind.com | 3/12/2009 4:29:41 PM

   @14 Well said Andrew.

   I'll probably blog on this myself, there are certainly things to say.

   But here & now I'll say that a BP or individual who comes in sayinig "well sorry but I'm going to work on other things now too" is kinda like the person who's saying in today's economy "I'm not going to spend as much now, so take that retail!".

   It's all just a big DUH! Diversification is a good thing. It's no big secret.

1. 20  John Smart http://www.greyduck.com | 3/15/2009 11:52:21 AM

   I think as more blogs have post-specific comment RSS feeds *cough cough*, people who actually _want_ to come back to the conversation will be able to do so more easily. I do it almost every time I'm able. (hint hint)

   @17: coComment went from "oh my god every blog should have this" to spammy, overnight. Don't say "but we need to remain profitable" because I agree with you; it's your implementation that was bad and I said as much in a comment to your post { Link } However, it seems the official coComment blog hides comments from old blog entries. (For which I thank you. That bit of irony's gonna make me smile all day!)