Michael’s Thoughts: Mark Bennett on IBM vs. Microsoft

July 8 2007

As the jet lag clears, I'll have a few more important catch-up thoughts from Japan.  For now, this entry on Michael Sampson's weblog seems worth some attention:

On Thursday I met with Mark Bennett, the IT Manager for the New Zealand offices of a global organization. What's interesting about Mark is that he comes from a very strong technical background in Microsoft and Citrix, and when he joined the Firm, he discovered a Notes shop running R5. He was horrified, and immediately started talking about an Exchange/Outlook migration. In other words, a classic default position for an IT Manager with a Microsoft background.

Fast forward a few years and he is (a) increasingly convinced of the tremendous value of Notes, (b) increasingly drawn to IBM and repelled by Microsoft, and (c) looking for ways to extend the depth and reach of Notes in the Firm.
The first-hand perspective is especially useful at cutting through hype.  I appreciate Mark's open-mindedness and believe that this scenario plays out more often than people think, and that it would play out even more often if there were more open-minded IT managers.

Link: Michael's Thoughts: Mark Bennett on IBM vs. Microsoft >

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Lotus  Add/View Comments [22]

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  1. 1  Kevin Pettitt http://www.lotuguru.com | 7/9/2007 12:32:42 AM

    Maybe we can get some case studies from New Zealand translated ;-).

  1. 2  Peter Wilson  | 7/9/2007 4:37:13 AM

    I hope he didn't get around to migrating to Exchange, otherwise he'll probably never come back (to Notes) unfortunately.

    Pete

  1. 3  Peter Wilson  | 7/9/2007 4:58:00 AM

    Edit the above - glad he didn't make the jump to Exchange. For those IT managers that have, I hope we can somehow get them to migrate back to Notes.

    Pete

  1. 4  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 7/9/2007 6:50:05 AM

    de Haas is the worst thing to read on a Monday morning.

    Manual trackback: { Link }

  1. 5  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 7/9/2007 7:36:32 AM

    I'm heartened to see this kind of thing happening. I'm currently fighting a battle to move from Exchange to Domino, and the hardest part of the fight isn't that Microsoft's collaboration solution is the best fit for our company's future goals. It's that upper management was brainwashed by my predecessor into believing that anything not Microsoft is evil.

  1. 6  Vitor Pereira http://www.vitor-pereira.com | 7/9/2007 7:37:31 AM

    @4 It's not just a Monday morning thing, it does not get any better throughout the week.

  1. 7  One Lotus Developer http://onelotusdeveloper.blogspot.com | 7/9/2007 8:04:53 AM

    @5 - Same here. This battle is pretty hard to fight. Although we have been using Notes since 4.5, the idea of moving to Exchange nevers stop. It is not about the technology and the product... rather, it is about who is in charge.

    What MS did well is that they know who to talk to / spend the money. MS kept sending their partners / free training to our management. Moreover, MS occasionally takes my CIO & directors for lunch (so call customer appreciation event). Hope our IBM reps may have a better strategy to deal with this.

  1. 8  Kevin Mort  | 7/9/2007 8:28:19 AM

    There is a second part of this story that I find interesting and refreshing. They are running their Domino servers on Linux. Something other than Windows. That's great.

    I wish there were more folks like Mark out there, espeically in the US. Sadly this market seems to be MS focused and indeed anything else is as Charles says, considered evil.

    I really believe we need to look at this both in terms of the collab/messaging app AND the OS platform on which it runs. If we're out to fight with MSFT then go after the OS, not just the apps.

    K.

  1. 9  david racicot  | 7/9/2007 8:48:42 AM

    @5 & 7. Send those people a link to this blog entry.

  1. 10  Keith Brooks http://lotustech.blogspot.com | 7/9/2007 8:49:56 AM

    @8 Kevin, I used to attack this way, the problem then, not so much now, was companies really did not use anything but Windows for "apps". Yes they had an as/400 and a mainframe environment, but just could not see putting Domino on them.

    A lot has changed in this space over the last few years and I think many of those clients finally took the idea to heart.

    These days maybe it is more useful to show the competitive presentation about how many pieces of a MS puzzle it takes to equal one Domino server or if you want include Saametime so its 2 servers vs. how many?

    But the problem still is the Lotus evangelists inthe companies do not do enough(Charles I know you work hard at it) until it is too late. You need to always be evangelising, running lunch and learns, helping executive AA's doing the little things that make the execs think Domino is important, because right now it isn't to them.

    For R8, what are you doing in your office to celebrate? I don't mean that you will move to it day one, but when you do, make it someting big, throw a breakfast meeting, get everyone yellow cupcakes to their desk, show how they can all blog or be like an executive with their dashboard.

    But do someting and prepare now for it, or play catchup when the MS sledgehammer arrives.

  1. 11  Flemming Riis  | 7/9/2007 8:51:42 AM

    -Hope our IBM reps may have a better strategy to deal with this.

    they could start with doing the same , apperantly it works

  1. 12  Henry Ferlauto http://www.geniusinside.com | 7/9/2007 10:51:01 AM

    Working for a Lotus ISV, one quote really rang home with me:

    "In terms of Microsoft, he finds himself increasingly dissatisfied. Proposed solutions take too many servers, client software is attractive but less functional than Notes, and he knows that he can do things cheaper and with greater agility by looking elsewhere."

    This is one of our big selling points when we go up against Microsoft Project Server. The term "Project Server" is a misnomer. It's not one server. It's a whole bunch of them; sometimes as many as a half-dozen.

    Here are the official requirements for Microsoft Project 2007 in a collaborative environment: { Link }

    With the power of Domino, we are able to provide all the same functionality and more. All with just ONE Domino server.

    Great find, Ed. Thank you very much.

  1. 13  Kevin Mort  | 7/9/2007 11:16:16 AM

    @10 - Fair points all, Keith. I think the issue comes down to a lack of consideration/understanding for/of anything but a Windows server (something that even IBM software has issues with in many ways).

    As we look to position the product line going forward I do believe there are features of other platforms which trump Windows and thus should be a part of the proposal. For example (my own feelings showing here) looking to i5/OS where Domino partitioning actually works with the companion products such as Sametime & Quickr. Then you also have multi-versioning, which Windows can't do at all.

    Today I do believe it is proper and viable to go after both pieces of it. Obviously use the right tool for the job, but I think if you leave the door open to MSFT, they'll barge in. Why make it easier? ; )

  1. 14  Sean Jennings  | 7/9/2007 11:45:14 AM

    @7 "MS occasionally takes my CIO & directors for lunch"

    This is known euphamistically as 'corporate entertainment' and its something I've seen MS do alot (eg free tickets major sporting-events etc) to get directors to like them.

    Kudos to Mark Bennett for his open-mindedness and strength of character.

  1. 15  Jim Casale  | 7/9/2007 11:59:38 AM

    @5 I can feel your pain about being having to deal with brainwashed management. Here they are brainwashed into the "other companies are using Exchange" mindset. Never mind that we have an average size of 1.5 Gb with the largest being 40 GB. I am fighting a political battle that has no benefits be moving to Exchange other then they can sey we use it too.

    Help me Obe Wan Notes 8...you're my only hope!

  1. 16  Keith Brooks http://lotustech.blogspot.com | 7/9/2007 12:56:03 PM

    @15 and 5, I know you hear it often, but winning in the solely email battle is not very easy, in fact many people, including Ed would and has argued that you need to go beyond messaging to the full collaboration of Domino to impress upon the management that MS is not like picking a tire for your car, more like picking a rim.

    If you want fat/large tires you need a larger rim, and of course you need to make sure your area space will accept that monster tire or else you will have to then carve out a space for it to fit, and make sure your axle is duly graded for the change in balance, etc....And they will say Domino is like that and you can reply, no Domino will work with any rim(OS) you choose and does not require countless other additional items which is why Domino is simple like a tire.

    Tires are easy, rims are not.

    Find your metaphor and make it BUSINESS oriented.

    If you are in a bank, it's like a loan process vs. atm for cash, a law office it's like going to trial, vs. settling out of court.It's about the easier IT life and the benefits to the business line.

    Messaging by itself brings little or no benefit, beyond communication, to the business.

    Why, not because of email, but because of HOW the email works with your business lines requirements, leverage your email to expand business growth and bottom line savings.

    And if you really need to say you use it too, setup an Outlook client to connect to Domino and ahem, bluff the execs. What they SEE is sometimes more important than what they hear. They just think Outlook, they don't really care/know where your mail comes from.

    Of course this presumes you are already running 7.02 and allowing corporate blogging and other user friendly items.

    If you are still on R6 your problem is much deeper to resolve.

    R8 will only help you be saved, if you have helped yourself on the business side on top of the IT side.

  1. 17  Jim Casale  | 7/9/2007 1:28:38 PM

    @16 Everything you say is correct but wouldn't that presume that the people involved in the decision making are making rational business decisions based on fact and not hype? I am the only person in IT willing to express my concerns about going to the dark side. The CIO is not willing to tell the Emperor he has no clothes.

    I also agree that it's not just about email. We have many Domino applications that the user community did not want to lose the last time we "looked at Exchange". Unfortunately the concerns of the greater user community may not be enough to keep Notes/Domino. Last I heard from the CIO is that we will run both systems until all application are migrated off to another M$ system. He recently attended a Microsoft event where he was told Exchange storage per user was "unlimited in 2007". I think he actually believes it too.

    I am still hopeful they will eventually find out the drawbacks of moving off Domino.

  1. 18  Keith Brooks http://lotustech.blogspot.com | 7/9/2007 2:04:13 PM

    JIm,

    Unlimited storage is a good thing? Um, check that exchangestoee option on the server, you know the one with a terrabyte, yep it went down, what! it takes 4 hours just to index before it goes live again?!

    What about the backup or cluster? You used it for what project? What do you mean its a backup server it was never meant to handle this load!??!!

    Sorry for making fun, but I have seen this take place a few times, it still makes me smile.

    I used to run backup backups on regular pcs(a little more ram in them) just in case with all the apps(not mail), hey better safe than sorry and it was free equipment.

    Of course if your company needs a new CIO that can plan ahead and make a stand...:-)

  1. 19  GarryL  | 7/9/2007 2:54:56 PM

    @12 I went to have a look at your product, but you have to hand over personal details just to see flash demo?

  1. 20  Henry Ferlauto http://www.geniusinside.com | 7/9/2007 3:46:03 PM

    @19 - Yes, the form does ask for some basic contact information to view the Flash videos. Since you listed an e-mail here, I will send you a link directly.

  1. 21  GarryL  | 7/9/2007 4:11:16 PM

    @20

    Many thanks.

  1. 22  MichaelC  | 7/9/2007 9:41:40 PM

    Just a polite response to Kevin Pettitt. At least NZ use English and not "American English" that is seen by real English-speaking countries as a paradox :)

    > Maybe we can get some case studies from New Zealand translated ;-).