Notes/Domino 7 released!

August 30 2005

Now available for download on both IBM PartnerWorld Software and IBM PassportAdvantage download websites.  Whoo-hoo!

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Notes/Domino 7  Add/View Comments [60]

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  1. 1  Daniel Silva  | 8/30/2005 9:31:27 AM

    Awesome! :)

  1. 2  Samuel Allen  | 8/30/2005 9:34:07 AM

    Woo-Hoo! Now I can get rid of all the little "b4's" from all my Notes & Domino version numbers.

  1. 3  Wild Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 8/30/2005 9:41:17 AM

    Of course some of us downloaded, upgraded servers and clients and were all done, by the time you lot got out of bed...!

    Hey - great news. A month early.

    Now *our* work begins..

    ---* Bill

  1. 4  Richard Smith http://www.basic.co.uk | 8/30/2005 9:50:54 AM

    Christmas comes early!!!! ? Well, it's certainly earlier than "end of Q3" so gratz to the Lotus Dev team. :-)

    I'd just like to say what good news we think this is and I think this confirms the extra energy that is currently around the ND platform.

    Interestingly though, there's no fanfare on Lotus.com about it... ND7 B4 is still listed as at 15:00hrs GMT.... but as always Ed - thanks for the inside track!!!

  1. 5  Bill Geimer  | 8/30/2005 9:52:53 AM

    You just have to "love" the Download Director pulling code off the US Site 2 at the rate of 1858 Kb/sec over 5 connections to my junky old laptop throught the proxy server. Thanks for that too. If you have not tried it yet, its in Passport Advantage. After you pick the files to download, you have the choice of "Restartable Transfers" or HTTP Transfers. The Download Director is the "Restartable". Choice. Gotta go. Client and Sametime are done. Wow.

  1. 6  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 10:05:49 AM

    vowe points out that Sametime, Quickplace, Domino Document Manager 7 are also all now available.

  1. 7  Kevin http://www.DominoPreacher.com | 8/30/2005 10:08:35 AM

    Cool. And I see Document Manager 7 is available as well. Looks like I'll be doing some downloading tonight!

  1. 8  Daniel Koffler http://www.rsmexperts.com | 8/30/2005 10:09:35 AM

    I'm glad that ND7 is shipping, but having recently taken the betas out for a test run I really have to ask... What's the big deal? Does this release really deserve to be called 7.0 and not 6.7?

    The web service support is a welcome feature but anemic in its implementation. Not to mention the fact that because Domino still can't CONSUME web services (what's up with that?), debugging web services in Domino 7 is a realy pain in the butt. I've had to resort to using .NET programming to debug Domino 7 web services.

    Also, is the Notes client EVER going to be a multi-threaded app? This is something that should have been done in ND 6.0 and is still sorely missing.

    I have been an App Dev CLP since the Notes 4.0 era and I have to say that this is the first major Domino release where I am really disappointed in the new functionality being offered, especially from an App Dev perspective.

  1. 9  Jeff Dayton dominojeff.com | 8/30/2005 10:18:29 AM

    I love Lotus and am really excited about this release but I was hoping this release would be different... Talked to Lotus Support this morning about the Upgrade guide/redbook and was told that they were still working on it. Is it just me who wishes that the product not get released until the documentation was ready? We're in the process of migrating Sametime and QuickPlace (our last two R5 servers) to 6 and I'd like to consider just putting them on 7, but who knows how long it will be before we get the docs...

  1. 10  Matt White http://www.11tmr.com | 8/30/2005 10:27:48 AM

    @8 - Daniel, the point of 7 was always going to be big behind the scenes changes evidenced by the NSFDB2 integration, not a big client release. But with regards to multi threading it gets better every release, the big one for me this time is view indexing which allows you to continue working while a view is being built. A massive time saver, well done the Dev Team!

  1. 11  Stephan H. Wissel http://www.wissel.net | 8/30/2005 11:15:56 AM

    Now the Genii is out of the bottle. Will there be a Webshpere entitlement like R6 with R7? Which version would that be?

    :-) stw

  1. 12  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 11:22:16 AM

    @11 Stephan, There's nothing net new in the area of WebSphere entitlement. I am -pretty sure- the existing WAS limited entitlement from Domino 6 continues. Check the license terms...

    @9 - that's the difference between 'eGA' and release. The code is out now, but the final general availability date is when the physical CDs ship etc. The documentation is close behind.

  1. 13  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 8/30/2005 11:25:00 AM

    @10 While I agree a lot of 7.0 is backend focused, let's not downplay the great client enhancements in 7.0! Here are some of the things...

    Discover Folders, Calendar Filtering, Exiting Notes Warning, Open With... Edit With... , Calendar Cleanup, Recipient Message Marking, Signed/Encypted Indicators, Close All Window Tabs, Save Window State, Background View Indexing, AutoSave, Instant Messaging Integration all over the place, Enchanced WebConferencing integration on Calendar form, Notes embeded chats can be saved into mail file, Notes embeded chat shows timestamps, Notes embeded chat allows you to show only people online, Notes embeded chat allows you to send links (DB, view, doc), All Calendar View and New Categories, Mail Threads displayed in memo header, Prefered Rooms/Resources, No Subject Warnings on email, Sort By Subject, "Do not expand personal groups" delivery option, New mail rules (such as Blacklists and Whitelists, by form, stop processing action), Improved right-click mouse options (included developer being able to place actions there), MS Office Smarttag support, ....

  1. 14  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 8/30/2005 11:56:50 AM

    It looks like Notes 7 was already finished on 2005-08-18, according to the latest date of the extracted installer files. Notes 7 looks great so far, lots of improvements since Beta 4, new icons also. Now I need to repeat my LS speedtests with the gold release :)

  1. 15  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 12:09:56 PM

    @14 Mika, yes, finished on the 18th... I actually blogged that but nobody seems to have noticed. :)

  1. 16  Chris Whisonant http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com | 8/30/2005 12:55:24 PM

    @15 - I noticed and told my boss...

  1. 17  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 8/30/2005 1:16:42 PM

    Woohoo indeed!!!

    Congrats to the whole team there! Looking forward to firing that puppy up!

    Well done!

    Andy :)

  1. 18  Egor Margineanu http://www.livejournal.com/users/egmar | 8/30/2005 1:32:19 PM

    Cool !!!. How about Notes plugin for Workplace Rich Client?

  1. 19  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 1:38:52 PM

    @18 - the plug-in is essentially part of the Notes 7 code already. of course, you need the Workplace Managed Client to work with that, which is still in limited distribution.

  1. 20  Norm Van Bergen http://www.decisionlabs.com | 8/30/2005 2:55:19 PM

    Will the Mac client be available soon? My apologies if this has been asked/answered before/elsewhere.

  1. 21  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 3:01:51 PM

    For 7.0, there is no net new Mac client. The 6.5.x Mac client is supported on 7.0. There will be a new "7" version of Notes for Mac in the 7.0.x timeframe.

  1. 22  Bob Warth  | 8/30/2005 3:02:28 PM

    Great news! Too often "Q3" means somewhere around the 5th or 6th week in September. Kudos to all involved!

  1. 23  Calvin Hovowe  | 8/30/2005 7:00:38 PM

    Bravo! Any word on what is new in Sametime or Quickplace 7? Odd that these could be "gold" and not a beta or early release info at all. Seems like a missed marketing opportunity, unless the 7.0 "upgrade" is not really an upgrade but the same product that has been Notes Client 7.0 tested (PLEASE NO!).

  1. 24  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/30/2005 7:25:00 PM

    there were betas of Sametime 7, QuickPlace 7, Domino Document Manager 7.

    Details of their new features are in the channel announcement:

    { Link }{ Link }

    As well as the "Why upgrade" documents:

    Quickplace: { Link }

    Sametime:

    { Link }

    etc.

  1. 25  Euan Clark http:// | 8/31/2005 12:15:46 AM

    Just been into Partnerworld DLs- no Sametime 7 Linux Server? (I do see the usual Domino 7 for Linux)

    Previous quotes/promises from IBM that they are going to support Linux for the "next release" of the ST server? Well this is the next release.

    (...*cough* and the 7.0 notes client *cough* ....yes I know...)

  1. 26  Andrew Price www.healthspace.com | 8/31/2005 12:17:29 AM

    btw, I really like this page

    { Link }

    Clarity! Wonderful. :)

  1. 27  Andy Dennis www.lan2lan.com | 8/31/2005 3:45:11 AM

    Hi Guys, I can't see Quickplace 7 for the Windows Platform.. Any idea's on whats happening here?

  1. 28  Ben  | 8/31/2005 4:26:21 AM

    Brilliant. Shame about DB2 but I'd much rather get V7 now with DB2 to follow than wait for both together.

    Also, Tivoli Analyzer build into the Admin client! Even better as it's a fantastic product, it was just a bit too dear to justify buying.

    So many new toys. Great stuff.

    Oh and @8 - I agree about the multithreading. It always annoys me and always will. I was hoping it'd be sorted for 7 but looks like we'll be waiting on Hannover. Oh well, can't have everything.

  1. 29  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com | 8/31/2005 5:23:39 AM

    Ben, there will certainly be a better thread model in Hannover, but don't get too excited: Eclipse-based products can still lock themselves up nicely ;o)

  1. 30  Ben  | 8/31/2005 5:31:49 AM

    @29

    "Eclipse-based products can still lock themselves up nicely ;o)"

    Gah!

  1. 31  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 8/31/2005 6:49:46 AM

    @25 - Not sure where you heard a plan to ship a Sametime server for Linux, it was not part of the 7.0 plan.

    @27 - it's there, at least according to this posting on vowe.net { Link }

  1. 32  Bill  | 8/31/2005 7:22:39 AM

    @18 Regarding the Workplacerich client, is there any way to install that without installing a workplace server with the provisioning components? It was not documented in the PDF I was reveiwing yesterday on the Workplace CDs.

    @15 I noticed, but until I can get my hands on it, it's still vapor, coalescing vapor, perhaps but still vapor.

  1. 33  Bill Geimer  | 8/31/2005 10:52:10 AM

    Sorry to seen that there is no support for Red Hat Linux at present. While I think that supporting RHEL 4.0 from the start would be asking for a lot, RHEL servers in most data centers are still RHEL 3.0 and some 2.1 boxes that should have been upgraded soon. When it comes out in 60 - 90 days, will it just be for 4.0, or will it run on RHEL 3.0 as well

  1. 34  MarvinK  | 8/31/2005 6:55:08 PM

    @13 I've got several people trying Notes 7, and after a day or two of playing on their own.. the only things anyone notices are the Microsoft-style chat icons and the exit 'nag' screen. The client enhancements deserve to be downplayed because they aren't enough to justify a whole new release.... its more like 6.6 from a client perspective.

    Really pathetic effort on the GUI by a company that should know the user interface isn't winning them any customers. Great product in a lot of ways--but interface isn't as pretty or friendly as its competitors--and version 7 made little or no headway in that department. Outlook 2003 was a substantial improvement for most users--and some big changes were readily obvious to most users. You can be certain that Outlook v12 will have some obvious outward changes, too.

    This might be Domino 7... but the client is more like Notes 6.6.

  1. 35  GarryL  | 9/1/2005 3:14:35 AM

    @34

    I would agree wholeheatedly. We are actually switching 100 users from Exchange 5.5 to 7.0 (and Workplace Services Express rich client when its out). I know what Domino is capable of, and its a great product, but the Notes client has always looked naff, to be blunt. In all honesty, if we were just wanting a replacement email system we would have gone to Exchange 2003, no question, but we wanted the full collaborative enviroment that we feel is only possible from the Domino route.

    In order to 'soften the blow' of moving users from Outlook XP, we are having to create some applications up front so that people can see the benefits of the new platform.

    The WSE client looks at lot better, and it may well be that when the two are combined you have a reasonable looking client, but would anyone else agree that the GUI of the standard Notes client, in any version, is the real Achilles’ heel of Domino?

    I know theres a lot of work gone into the server, but the client GUI is a real missed opportunity.

  1. 36  Philip Storry http://www.not-so-rapid.com | 9/1/2005 3:20:35 AM

    MarvinK [34]>

    The client is virtually unchanged? So I get those nice incremental improvements, but have really low training costs?

    Sounds great to me.

    But then, as they say, one man's meat is another man's poison...

  1. 37  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 9/1/2005 6:27:06 AM

    @34 and @35 - ND7 was always positioned as primarily a server-focused release, and therefore a somewhat deliberate "missed opportunity".

    At @13 above, though, you'll see a decent list of client improvements. Still, Phillip@36 is on the right point. Low training/re-training requirements were a major factor for this release.

    Now the next version of Notes, "Hannover", will be a major step forward in UI with significant attention to mail, calendar, contacts. see { Link } to get excited.

  1. 38  MarvinK  | 9/1/2005 10:29:07 AM

    @37 I know there is a long list of some very minor client improvements. It is just frustrating to think IBM must know a lot of why they lose customers to Exchange is the glossy user interface of Outlook, yet they plan and release a full version upgrade that does essentially nothing to counter-act that. We've had plenty of pressure here when new high level people come in from an Exchange shop and are horrified by the Notes client--especially at first sight. They adapt, but most former Outlook users I talk to are only tolerant of the Notes client.

    Surely it is no coincidence that Hannover got some publicity BEFORE r7 was released--so IBM could deflect the criticism by pointing at something they're releasing down the road.

  1. 39  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/1/2005 10:41:20 AM

    @36 - Philip, virtually having no training costs for the new client can be quite important when you have over 120k users, like we do.

    And besides, the Notes Workspace is still better than the Bookmark system. Honestly, I've never seen anyone using the Bookmarks. The only improvement I would like to see that the Notes Workspace would be like the (X-)Windows Desktop, with freely movable icons, folders and subfolders. I think they had something similar in Notes 1.0 (except for the folders), but that's a long time ago, and the nowadays graphical OS UI's are most convenient.

  1. 40  GarryL  | 9/1/2005 11:06:55 AM

    @38

    Must agree completely again. Yes, I can understand that the a new look would incur training costs, but you're going to incur them at some point anyway, aren't you? What's the difference between now (@ version 7) and when Hannover comes out?

    It seems to to me that all GUI work is going on for release 8, and resources were and are busy with that. Honestly, IBM has not done itself any favours with the client. I'm expecting all sorts of moans and complaints when we move, but we're pushing ahead because we know that that technically its the best product for the job.

    The training costs issue is great if you're already on Notes, but there's still a load of companies looking to move from Exchange 5.5, and end user imput is always a factor in these choices.

    If you put Notes 7 and Outlook 2003 side by side and ask a user to choose, I know what most people would put their money on.

  1. 41  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/1/2005 11:33:13 AM

    @38 - Garry, by the time R8 comes out, we will have hopefully migrated all Notes applications to Domino Web applications, and the Notes Client will be used by developers only. We are very close to that even now, basically one more big application to move, which is scheduled to be ready in October 2005.

    My long term dream is that all applications, including C++ compiler, office suite, etc.. will be usable from a web browser. Just imagine the possibilies, you could have your whole office in a mobile phone with a internet browser, and you could access your whole office from any internet cafe. There would be no need for own laptops with installed software anymore, unless you want to play extensive 3D games :)

  1. 42  Thilo Hamberger  | 9/2/2005 10:09:11 AM

    @41 - Why would I want to migrate my Notes applications? They run perfectly within the Notes/Domino environment. And why restrict to a Browser interface when you can have a wonderful client? Talking about 3D games? Anyone heard when Notes will be using DirectX? :) just like in Minority report or remember that databse access in Disclosure?

  1. 43  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/2/2005 12:27:17 PM

    @42 - Over longer time, when developing Notes applications and getting new feature requests, you encounter sometimes things which simply can't be done in the Notes Client, but can be done easily on the web.

    I've seen for example these kinds of issues which need to be done on the web:

    1) Printing: In Notes, it's a horror. On the web you can just use a HTML2PDF converter, or just a css stylesheet for printing, or just print directly the page from the web browser.

    2) Version problems: Many companies still use older Notes Clients, like R4/5, which hold you back from utilizing new useful and effective capabalities of Domino. On the web, everything is done by Domino, and the user just needs a HTML/JavaScript capable browser like IE5/6, Firefox, Mozilla, Safari.

    3) Embedding external content: In Notes no way to do it, on the web easily with an IFrame, like for example a package tracking page from DHL for the current order.

    4) Search engine: In Notes you are basically stuck with the built-in engine, on the web you can do your own engine, as the search results can be redirected to a text file, and presented via an LS agent as a web page.

    5) Tables, dynamic layouts, high quality pictures: In Notes, simply not possible. On the web easily done with HTML code, stylesheets, lookups, and PNG file attachments.

    6) Multitasking: In Notes, not officially supported, but you might be lucky to have a few Notes sessions running simultaneously. On the web, you can have lots of browser windows opened at the same time, and it's fully supported.

    7) Accessibility: When you travel, you need to have your computer with your Notes always with you. On the web, you can go to any internet cafe, or use your mobile phone and just log in.

    8) Performance: In Notes, you have @DBLookups, databases and views on remote servers which cause the biggest performance lags. On the web, you just need to transfer the HTML page from the server.

    9) Multiple Client suppliers and beneficial competition: In Notes, the Client is just developed by one company, on the web you can choose between multiple suppliers and each of them tries to keep their Client better than the others'.

    10) Platform independancy: In Notes, you are restricted to the OS selection which IBM supports, on the web you can basically choose any OS, and always have the newest client for your favorite OS.

    11) Public access and user registration: In Notes, well first the customer needs a Notes Client, and then you need to cross-certify their notes.ids. On the web, everyone can access the site Anonymously, or register online.

    12) Free style views and superrelational database queries: In Notes not possible, on the web you can have thumbnails, on mouse over pop-ups, help texts, buttons, editable fields, superrelational (not key field dependant, but can use any logic to connect inter-database fields) database lookups from several databases, and basically everything you can do with a HTML page.

    Just to mention a few...

  1. 44  Richard Schwartz http://www.rhs.com/poweroftheschwartz | 9/3/2005 7:00:42 PM

    @43: Mika. Where to start? Where to start?!

    1) I'm no fan of Notes printing, but the basics work just as well as the do in a browser. If printing is so great in a browser, how come whenever I print from Mapquest or any of a number of sites, the pagination sucks, the right margin is whacked, etc?

    2a) Version problems within a company are a management problem, not a technical problem. 2b) If you can't manage your version problems with the Notes client, how are you going to do any better job of managing the problems of multiple versions of IE, Firefox, Netscape, Safari?

    3) Ever heard of OLE? It's been in Notes for more than a decade. If you want to embed web content, there are components for that. True -- it's pretty effectively Windows only, but it's there. Furthermore, if you want to do more than just display the package tracking information, both LotusScript and Java can make HTTP requests.

    4) You are not "stuck with" the results of the builtin search engine. It's programmable and products like NCT Search prove that you can do an awful lot with what comes back.

    5) You score a point on dynamic tables, although MIDAS makes much more possible than most people can imagine... but that's third party functionality. And high-quality pictures? What's that about? PNG is often superior to GIF but Notes still supports BMP, and while size is an issue PNG is not superior in quality.

    6) Re multi-tasking. I have seven tabs open in my Notes client right now. What's the difference?

    7) Why would you travel without your computer? :-)

    8) Performance... you gotta be kidding me! How do you build that HTML page? With the same @DbLookups, etc. The difference is that for web aspps, all the work has to be done by the server, whereas in Notes client apps a susbstantial amount of work can use the available CPU cycles on the client machine.

    9) Yes, there's only one vendor supplying the Notes client, but in a lot of organizations there's only one supported browser vendor. Furthermore, IBM is also trying to keep their client better than the others -- but not merely trying to keep it better than the browser clients. They're also trying to keep it better than the email clients. I'm not going to say that they're beating everyone feature-for-feature, but frankly I think it's insulting to IBM that the browser world has made such a big deal about the innovation of tabbed browsing. IBM had tabs in Notes way before any browser did.

    10) Linux support is finally coming with the rich client plugin for 7.x, and then we get more from Hannover. What other OS's do you want?

    11) Yes, the browser is superior from an admninistrative view for most extranets. The tradeoff is that the security model of the Notes client is much stronger. If you need end-to-end public key encryption in a browser-based app, good luck.

    12) Yes, views are very limiting. As for "superrelational database queries", I have no idea what that means -- and Google was no help -- but I have trouble believing that there's something inherent about a browser that makes such a thing possible and yet you can't do it in a Notes client app using a form, some scripts and multiple embedded elements.

  1. 45  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/4/2005 2:31:41 AM

    @44 - Richard, while you provide valid counter-arguments, they are not quite as good as their web browser counterparts.

    1) A HTML2PDF brings the best printing results, with the right margins. But even the native web browser brinting brings in my opinion better results than the native Notes printing, basically because the web page is already better under control than the Notes Form. Table rows get warped if one column has longer texts in it in Notes, for example.

    2) I'm not limiting the use of the applications to inter-company, or inter-company-unit use only, but rather want to have a one-for-all solution also for end customers and public access users. Why should I do several versions of the application, when one web version works best for all?

    3) OLE components are for Windows only, as you said, plus they need to be installed on every client. I want to avoid installing any 3rd party software on the client side, as it causes only more problems when you are dealing with 100k+ clients which are not under a global IT management. LotusScript can download web pages, or it's at least trying to do so. The results are not true HTML, but a Notes compiled version of it, usually the rendering is just horrible and I rather make then a URL link from Notes to the real web page. I haven't tried the Java method of getting an URL yet, as I don't do things in Java anyway.

    4) I'm not familiar with NCT Search yet, gotta research on it too.

    5) PNG is a non-quality-losing picture format, while it's compression rate is often better than JPG. If you'd use BMP only, your databases would be gigabytes larger in size, and opening of documents would causes a lot unneeded network traffic, and take a long time to open.

    6) Notes Tabs are not multitasking windows, if you run an agent from one tab, all other tabs are stuck too.

    7) On Holidays for example, but also when you know that you don't need your own computer, why travel with unneeded ballast?

    8) No, there's a huge performance difference. On the web, the dblookup is done locally by the server, in Notes it's done remotely. The biggest delay in Notes is waiting for the remote dblookup. For exampe for 10000 lookups on the web, it takes around 10 secs, for the same operation in Notes it takes several minutes. Of course you don't always have that heavy lookups, but even for smaller Forms, the waiting time to open one document can be around 20 seconds on the Notes side. It's not acceptable for business applications, and why should it be acceptable for any other applications either.

    9) I have also tabs on my Windows Desktop, and I don't really see having tabs also inside a browser window very useful. With the Windows Tasks I can see all open applications at a glance, and don't have to go inside other windows to check for additional open pages.

    10) I would prefer that my applications work on any client and on any OS, including mobile phones and palmtops. Web Browser clients can deliver that today.

    11) I think it's much harder to hack a web application on domino which is hosted on port 80 only, as it only shows parsed HTML content, and doesn't give direct access to the Notes databases. In Notes you can easily get manager access to any database.

    12) We all know what relational databases are. They are databases which can be joined together by a (1-n) relation using a strict key field, which has to have the same value and same type on both databases. Superrelational is the next step, which doesn't limit that the field has to be identical on both ends, it can also span over several fields, or use a custom programmable logic to join any databases. This can be done on the web with an amazing speed in Domino. I have even done superrelational views which do the same as the normal notes view did, added some fields from other databases, and the resulting sr-view was faster than the notes view to open on the web. The core problem with notes view speed on the web comes from using categorized columns, and single category embedded views. On the web, using an LS agent, this performance problem does not occur, and thus the speed increase even with additional dblookups in the view.

  1. 46  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 9/4/2005 7:51:46 AM

    @44 - For point #6, take a look at the agent property "Run in client background thread".

  1. 47  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 9/4/2005 7:55:38 AM

    Ops, my response above was for @45.

    BTW, @44, point #9 about tabbed browsing, I could not agree more. I wrote about this a few months ago: { Link } , with all the criticisms about Notes' "non-standard UI"... I'd just like one of the dozens of articles that talk about tabbed browsing to mention that Notes has been doing it for a decade!

  1. 48  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/4/2005 12:54:45 PM

    @46 - Ok, that is one step closer to multitasking, but it needs you to rewrite all agents, and what about the other Notes-freezing things, like opening a categorized view, opening a heavy Form (dblookups, large embedded pictures)?

  1. 49  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 9/4/2005 1:07:36 PM

    Mika -

    you do realize that each tab in a browser is not a seperate memory thread, right? One tab locks up, the whole browser does. And for IE, one window goes down, all of the browser windows go down.

    I am not going to counter every item you put down, but I disagree. Applications in the browser have a place, but they will never reach the rich functionality of an application in the client. To each there own.

  1. 50  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 9/4/2005 1:27:16 PM

    @48 - You don't re-write anything, you click on a checkbox in Designer. As for opening views, with Notes 7 large views index and open in the background, allowing you to work on something else.

  1. 51  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/4/2005 5:37:42 PM

    @50 - I know that R7 has a multitasking view rebuild function, but I was talking about already indexed views which are categorized. We have some databases with 5 level categories and when you leave the categories expanded when exiting the view, the next opening takes a long time to open. I've already instructed the users to remember to "collapse all" before exiting categorized views, but do you think they will remember that, or should they even need to remember that? I think it's easier to give them a web browser with no special rules, so they can focus on their actual work, and not waste their time with workarounds of the Notes Client bugs.

  1. 52  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/4/2005 5:43:48 PM

    @49 - IE6 doesn't fortunately have tabs yet, and when IE7 with tabs comes out I hope there will be a way to disable them, to avoid problems with multitasking. I've seen some IE6 windows get stuck, and shutting them down with task manager, didn't affect other IE6 windows. There might be rare situation where you need to close all IE6 sessions.

    I don't also want to counter each pro Notes argument, as it's in my opinion a very desperate attempt to claim that Notes has something to offer which Web Browser's don't. Sure, Notes is improved all the time, but in my opinion that's a waste of time and resource, instead IBM should focus fully on improving Domino and Web Browser support. The battle was already lost long time ago, why make it worse?

  1. 53  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 9/4/2005 6:42:47 PM

    @51 For your "5 category deep view", do you have 5 seperate categorized columns, or do you have a single hidden computed field on the form that creates a single string (such as size + "\\" + color + "\\" + material) and then a single column that shows that value?

  1. 54  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/4/2005 6:56:05 PM

    @53 - Actually 4 seperate list fields, which are joined together to provide the final category value (because of the 16/32k field value restriction), and each of those 4 multi-value fields have 5 categories seperated by "\" for each line in their multi-value field. Anyway, the result is stored into 1 view column.

  1. 55  Nathan T. Freeman  | 9/5/2005 7:03:23 AM

    Mika, what is it with you and coming up with the kinds of problems that the rest of us can fix in about 15 seconds?

    View - QueryClose event

    @Command([ViewCollapseAll])

    By the way, have you ever tried embedding a browser object into a Notes form? Takes a little doing, but once it's done, you have complete DOM access as a Lotuscript programmable object. I'm building true drag-&-drop graphical interfaces in the Notes client these days using this technique. And it even works locally, because I'm opening replicated DHTML files on to the local drive.

  1. 56  Mika Heinonen siipi.com/mika | 9/5/2005 8:26:53 AM

    Those are great ideas, Nathan.

    I will test and play around with them a bit, maybe that's a possible golden middle way for companies who are switching slowly to more and more web based domino apps, and for those who use mainly notes apps, but want some additional functionality from the browser side.

  1. 57  lhgrubbs http://www.advbuscomputing.com/Projects/Domino7_CenTOS/ | 2/4/2006 11:15:54 AM

    Completed Install of Domino 7 on Linux - CenTOS 4.1

    Works Great!

    { Link }

  1. 58  Terry Brooks  | 5/17/2006 7:56:35 AM

    Much of this is waaay over my head. I just want to figure out how I can get Notes to forward email to another address.

    (Maybe I'm too basic.) :)

    Thanks.

    Terry

  1. 59  shareef http://www.saptco.com.sa | 10/27/2007 2:28:21 AM

    pls send me detail regarding installation of lotus notes on linux with filesystem step by step