Notes/Domino 8.5.1 FAQ: Using Domino Designer with Domino Express

October 14 2009

By far, the number one question I've received since we announced changes to the Notes/Domino licensing structure last week has been:
How do I use Domino Designer with Domino Collaboration Express?

This question comes up because under the "old rules", you could not combine Domino Express and Notes/Domino client-server licensing in a single deployment.  Domino Designer, as a stand-alone product, could be used against any Domino Enterprise Server -- Express or non-Express.

With the change for standard licensing to a Client Access License model, I have been asked numerous times, how do I build/deploy an application in a Domino Collaboration Express environment?  The answer requires you to play a little bit of connect-the-dots in our new license agreements.  I would like to make this clearer and will get a public FAQ posted to do so.  Meanwhile, here are the dots.

The Domino Collaboration Express 8.5.1 license agreement says that you can deploy the Domino Enterprise Server.  It is subject to specific restrictions, such as no clustering.  It also requires you to buy a Domino Collaboration Express license for "each Authorized User who accesses the Program".  That means every user.  However, that doesn't say that the Domino Collaboration Express license is the only license you can buy for each such user.  In both the old and new model, that means that a developer accessing a Domino Collaboration Express server from Domino Designer needed to buy something else.  In the old model, that was a license of Domino Designer -- yes, on top of their Domino Collaboration Express license.  In the new model, that is a Domino Enterprise CAL -- yes, on top of their Domino Collaboration Express license.

The Domino Enterprise CAL license agreement says that you can use IBM Lotus Domino Designer, and it says that you can create or modify Domino applications.  It also says that you can access a Domino server (Messaging/Enterprise/Utility).  

So, as long as each Domino Collaboration Express user is covered by a Domino Collaboration Express license, you can also buy a Domino Enterprise CAL for any users who need to use Domino Designer with the Domino Collaboration Express server.

It is only in the Domino Collaboration Express model that this "double license" would be needed for a user who is both accessing the Collaboration Express servers and using Designer to build apps for it.  In the regular Domino Enterprise/Utility Server environment, the Domino Enterprise CAL covers both the user's right to use Domino as well as their right to use Designer and build apps.  Some will say that this penalizes Collaboration Express customers from benefitting from the new free distribution of Domino Designer.  I think that's a fair criticism, but Express licensing has a series of restrictions that result in its price being significantly less than Notes (or the new Enterprise CAL).  I said in comments on another thread that my team and I deliberately did not want to make any changes to the Express licensing structure as part of the 8.5.1 effort; this is a tradeoff we made to address the majority situation.  Consider this my public acknowledgement that we created an unintentional point of confusion here, and will look at ways to clarify, beyond this blog post.

Update: As prompted by the comments, if the Domino Collaboration Express customer has one or more licenses of Domino Designer already, and is under maintenance/S&S for that/those license(s), the Designer licenses will be converted to Domino Enterprise CALs in February, 2010.  There is no need to purchase yet anything additional other than staying on maintenance for those Designer licenses.

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  notesdomino lotusnotes 8.5 lotus  Add/View Comments [35]

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  1. 1  Theo Heselmans http://blog.xceed.be | 10/14/2009 2:54:24 PM

    Most of my smaller clients (and myself) are in this Express situation. If I get it right, I just need to buy 1 CAL license for each Designer license I had before.

    Is the price of one CAL license not close to 1 express license, and thus significantly lower than 1 (old) designer license ?

  1. 2  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:06:14 PM

    How about making an Express License required for deploying a designed application on an Express server and an Enterprise license required for deploying a designed application on an Enterprise server.

    That seems easy enough.

  1. 3  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:08:33 PM

    Or better yet, require either an Express or Enterprise license for deploying a designed application on any Domino server.

  1. 4  Richard Schwartz http://www.poweroftheschwartz.com | 10/14/2009 3:12:54 PM

    Thanks for the clear explanation, Ed.

  1. 5  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:16:56 PM

    @1 I should put this in the main body of the post. Of course, if the customer has a license for Domino Designer today, and is on active maintenance/S&S in February, 2010, they will be converted automatically to the Enterprise CAL. They do not need to buy yet another license if they have a Domino Designer license.

    The price of an Enterprise CAL is US$159, versus $864 for Domino Designer. Obviously, the Enterprise CAL includes the right to use Notes, iNotes, Traveler, and the client side of Lotus Mobile Connect.

  1. 6  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:21:21 PM

    "So, as long as each Domino Collaboration Express user is covered by a Domino Collaboration Express license, you can also buy a Domino Enterprise CAL for any users who need to use Domino Designer with the Domino Collaboration Express server."

    So, it will cost almost twice a much to "use IBM Lotus Domino Designer... " to "...create or modify Domino applications." for an Express environment (small) than an Enterprise environment (large). That does NOT make sense to me.

  1. 7  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:25:10 PM

    @6 but it is an improvement by US$700 on the old license structure, where an Express environment had to spend US$864 for Designer on top of a Domino Collaboration Express license.

  1. 8  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:28:09 PM

    @7 But, but, but, ...

    That doesn't make it right. Small deployments should not pay more for Designer than large shops.

    See @3.

  1. 9  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 10/14/2009 3:29:42 PM

    Hmmh. I don't know how much money you will make with the Enterprise CALs for free Designer clients. Would it not have been MUCH easier to just let everyone build apps and deploy them to servers, and only worry about the users? They need an Express or an enterprise CAL anyway.

  1. 10  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:32:26 PM

    @8 David, you are not looking at the whole picture. A small shop already pays way less than a large one for Notes/Domino. Domino Collaboration Express is a bargain at US$141/user (or even better, US$106 for a competitive trade-up), with no server cost. That includes the right to deploy Domino for those users. If a few Designer/Enterprise CAL licenses are needed for building Domino apps, it's still a tremendous value over the per-product server/CAL licensing model.

  1. 11  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:32:44 PM

    @9 Excellent! Best suggestion, yet.

  1. 12  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:35:50 PM

    @9 it might have. But as I said in the main post, we chose not to make any changes to the Express licensing or packaging at this time. I simply didn't want to turn too many knobs at once on the dashboard. I wrote this blog entry to acknowledge that and explain how it does work, now.

  1. 13  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 10/14/2009 3:39:05 PM

    Yes, you explained it nicely. Thank you.

    Simplification is good. And you are moving in the right direction.

  1. 14  David Bailey  | 10/14/2009 3:40:11 PM

    @10 Yes; Express is a good deal for small shops. And under your guidelines, Designer would be less costly than before.

    But, my point is that deploying designed/modified applications is free for anyone with a Enterprise Cal and NOT FREE for anyone with an Express Cal. Why would you want to do that?

  1. 15  Henning Heinz  | 10/14/2009 3:40:37 PM

    Or as I have said before. Make a Domino Designer Express license for the price of an Enterprise CAL. It is difficult enough to comply with the Express rules.

  1. 16  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:46:01 PM

    @14 ultimately, Express has restrictions on it that are the trade-offs to make it a lower-priced product. That's where we are at today.

  1. 17  Mark Hughes  | 10/14/2009 3:49:26 PM

    It took my IBM compliance specialist 3 days to figure all of this out. Thanks for the post!

  1. 18  Peter Daum  | 10/14/2009 3:51:01 PM

    Ed

    First, congratulations for all your achievements from a (usually) silent reader and (usually) happy Domino user. I also acknowledge that you want to see real money for your product, it's worth it!...

    But the very circumstance that you need about 100 lines in your blog to just explain a very small part of the licensing implications should serve as evidence that the Notes licensing scheme is kind of flawed.

    In my humble opinion, having an Express like licensing scheme would save me much time as I would not have to explain the peculiarities of the licensing scheme (or at least my interpretation of it) to the procurement department and my managers everytime a new server license or user is needed.....

    Best

    Peter

  1. 19  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 3:53:02 PM

    @17 - no, it took ME that time to get the definitive answer written -- your compliance guy was working with me and the team in the background. Your situation is what prompted this blog post.

    @18 I agree. I did my mea culpa in the blog post. This is a post I would rather not have written.

  1. 20  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.geniisoft.com/showcase.nsf/GeniiBlog | 10/14/2009 3:54:09 PM

    I think this is a great deal. I appreciate your explanation in here (and hope it forestalls the people who keep asking me after I went through this process myself)

  1. 21  Lisa Duke http://www.simplified-tech.com | 10/14/2009 5:27:54 PM

    No good deed goes unpunished, eh? :)

    By my math, 1 Express CAL + 1 Enterprise CAL is still way less that $850, so while confusing, it seems workable. Most Express clients would only need 1 or 2 Enterprise CALs anyway.

    Thanks for the clarification!

  1. 22  Christopher Byrne http://www.controlscaddy.com/ | 10/14/2009 6:19:29 PM

    @Ed...one question I have and have not seen anywhere. Is the "Free" designer license option only applicable to 8.5.1, or do 7.X and 8.0.X shops get the same deal?

  1. 23  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/14/2009 6:22:40 PM

    @22 I thought i answered this. Designer 8.5.1 is free to anyone and everyone (you have looked at the download page, right?) but we are not providing back-level versions of Designer for free. If you have a Notes or iNotes for Collaboration license on active maintenance, you'll be converted to the Enterprise CAL in Februrary -- meaning regardless of what version of Notes you actually run, as long as you are current, you've got the license in Notes/iNotes Collab to use Designer against a Domino server.

  1. 24  Christopher Byrne http://www.controlscaddy.com/ | 10/14/2009 9:54:06 PM

    @23. Sorry I must have missed it somewhere..

  1. 25  Tom Sparrow http://www.doulos.com/ | 10/15/2009 4:21:46 AM

    As an Express customer (40-odd users) I'm quite happy with the changes. We've got 1 designer license and I'm happy to convert that to an Enterprise CAL, should even save me some money come renewal time.

    I've got 4 servers running in 3 sites for those users - I don't want to know what that would have cost if it wasn't for the express licensing - we'd still be on Exchange, that's for sure.

    All those standing up for the express customers - thanks, but this one at least is quite happy with the situation.

  1. 26  Mark hughes  | 10/15/2009 8:52:03 AM

    It is a great deal for the vsb! Thanks for the changes, we are appreciative of the work and the pain to change how all this works. The real value if domino is the applications and this is a big step to get vsb's using the full power that domino provides

    my compliance guy was great by the way

  1. 27  Tripp Black http://www.mindwatering.com | 10/15/2009 11:28:01 AM

    As a small Collaborative license Enterprise shop and consultant for some clients with Express licensing ...

    This is a great change. Even as it stands now.

    For Mindwatering, I am personally "double licensed" with a regular Collab Notes Enterprise license now plus my $400ish renewal yearly for Designer. My Enterprise licensing should gain one user which we'll keep when our Designer license I use converts to a standard CAL. We will save approximately $400 when we renew.

    I think the "Express Hit" is minimal even as it stands. We're all saving money. Even with the developer/user being double licensed, it still saves $600 ($800 ish new) or $200 ($400ish) for a renewal. It's $159 versus $141 for the CAL.

    In my opinion, the best way to fix this Express "tax" would be this:

    For the developer user at the Express licensing company, he/she should be required not to double license but to license at the Enterprise level. That would be a $18 difference which even to the smaller shops is negligible. They would understand the value. They would also not feel they were hit with a double tax or any other value added tax. The Designer being $18 is to overcome a license limitation of the Express licensing.

    Thanks for listening, Ed. Even with no other changes, this is a great improvement.

    Downloading 8.5.1 this past week reminded me of another minor anoyance ...

    If you can get a Passport login at the main www.lotus.com/passport page directly that would be great. Yes, I have it bookmarked on my workstation, but I'm not always at my workstation. It's inconvenient to walk customers through 3 or 4 clicks after giving them the short address. We end up e-mailing the somewhat longer link instead. We all feel like if our bank can put our banking login on the home page, we know IBM can.

  1. 28  Nazeer Aval   | 10/15/2009 12:16:33 PM

    Ed, As you did simplify with CALs last week and Designer is free for Ent CALs, I think you could leave Collaboration Express user license with the same entitlement. This will help us to differentiate with Messaging Express user license and would add more value to SMB customers.

  1. 29  Henning Heinz  | 10/15/2009 5:57:20 PM

    In the past I thought it was quite easy. You buy a Designer license and are allowed to develop software for customers. Now this will be converted to an Enterprise CAL(ok). But if I now develop software. Is my own Enterprise CAL enough or do I have to ensure (recommend) that every Collaboration Express customer buys an Enterprise CAL too (they normally don't use Designer at all because they don't know what to do with it)?

  1. 30  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/15/2009 7:22:45 PM

    Only a developer in an Express environment needs an Enterprise CAL.

  1. 31  Michael  | 10/19/2009 7:41:21 AM

    First, very nice Blog!!!

    About the theme:

    Well on { Link } stand: Download - Get the no-charge download today!

    You need only a IBM ID.

    Well ok, who will think about that if he/she using Express and see it's now free, why he/she should buy it?

    If the Express Users aren't allowed to use it, then they could get it independ from there produktiv System and use it or?

    In fact, i found it very critical to say well, its free but not for Express.

    But i surely understand, if you want technical support for it, you need a licens.

    Kind Regards

    Michael

  1. 32  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/19/2009 7:47:13 AM

    @31 I think the materials on DeveloperWorks make it clear that for support and to connect to Domino, a CAL is needed for Designer. If it isn't, I can have the site updated. Either way, this language is in the license agreement, and will be made clearer by an FAQ on ibm.com posting today.

  1. 33  Michael  | 10/19/2009 9:08:55 AM

    So if there is no Connection to a Domino, there will be no costs?

    Kind Regards

    Michael

  1. 34  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 10/19/2009 9:26:12 AM

    That is correct -- stand-alone use for building/testing applications is completely free.

  1. 35  Patrick  | 10/20/2009 8:05:34 PM

    I'm confused. I see the savings when buying a new Enterprise CAL vs buying Designer new. But am I missing something regarding the Designer renewal?

    Using prices from @27, it sounds like a Designer license renewal is around $200 (maybe more) while a new Enterprise CAL is around $160 (maybe lower). If the designer to enterprise CAL license is swapped one for one, why would anyone renew their Designer license before the February 2010 swap? Shouldn't they just buy a new Enterprise CAL which is cheaper?

    I wouldn't mind renewing a designer license now if there's going to be renewal dollar equity (one designer license to several Enterprise CALs) when the license swap occurs, but I'm not reading anything like that.