Ed Brill

Post a Comment

1. 1  Bruce Elgort http://elguji.com | 10/8/2008 6:45:39 PM

   What about the Workspace replacement update/replacement that we saw at ILUG 2008? It was fabulous. Did it get axed?

1. 2  Jim Casale http://www.jimcasale.net | 10/8/2008 7:06:00 PM

   Although a new workspace and/or look and feel are good, forward looking ideas...you know there is going to be a bunch of users that like "the old look better". I have heard users say "I like the old way of selecting documents" when given the Notes 8 client. Making both the old and new way of selecting an option in 8.0.2 was a wise move in my opinion.

   I am not a developer, and not sure if it can be done, but if the front end is redesigned I would recommend giving users choices if possible.

1. 3  Vaughan Rivett http://st1.rivettassociates.com/Web/Vaughans.nsf/ | 10/8/2008 9:05:45 PM

   @Paul Just a thought. One good thing with Lotus Notes is that the users are able to use earlier versions of Notes with a latter version of Domino. Is this an option for people who don't want change??? Just a thought.

1. 4  Sean Jennings  | 10/9/2008 3:32:32 AM

   Hmm... so instead of having icons for Notes databses on your Notes Workspace, you could have them;

   a) appear on your Windows/Mac Desktop

   b) place Notes databases in your Start Menu (Windows) or Dock (OS X)

   So the Notes 'databases' ('application' in Notes 8-speak) would appear as stand-alone applications/programs.

   I like the idea, might make it far easier for ISV's to sell Notes-based applications to customers and allow Notes to appear more native (a common complaint from Mac fans).

   It would be a useful approach for pushing Notes as a development-platform alternative to .Net etc.

1. 5  Paul Mooney http://www.pmooney.net | 10/9/2008 4:00:27 AM

   Since when am I a "Mr" ;)

1. 6  Bruce Mackenzie  | 10/9/2008 5:42:10 AM

   It would be great if both options were available. We have a big CRM application in Notes, and it would be brilliant if our users could open it as if it were a standalone application.

   Also, a big problem with the Notes 8 standard client is its lack of support for opening applications in a new window. Everyone in our office has two monitors, so having everything stuck inside one Notes window prevents us from being able to move everything into the Notes client.

   - Bruce

1. 7  Stuart McIntyre http://lotussymphonyblog.com | 10/9/2008 6:09:41 AM

   Sorry, off topic - I've just noticed that your next trip on Dopplr is to Slough... You get to go to all the most exotic locations ;-)

   Back on topic, it's great to see you (and others in Lotus) embracing these discussions taking place on non-IBMers' blogs.

1. 8  Przemek  | 10/9/2008 8:04:56 AM

   @6 Hi Bruce

   >it would be brilliant if our users could open it as if

   >it were a standalone application

   Have you tried this:

   { Link }

1. 9  Dale Cybela  | 10/9/2008 9:21:09 AM

   Seeing this dicussion warms my heart.

   When the Welcome Page hit Notes, it had/has its advocates for whatever reasons they have/had, the (beloved) workspace has its advocates, but in many ways it seems “old” and was loathed by those that wanted a “new style” interface (bookmarks, favorites, links, etc.). For a long time, IBM would not entertain the notion that the Workspace was not going to go “away”, but have now embraced that the Workspace has its advantages and “welcomes” it back.

   However, there are those that want Notes Objects (database/applications, views, documents, etc.) to become more native to the OS’s that people use. This includes such things as (and if I left some out, someone chime in):

   - Invoking a Notes Object (database/application, specific view, specific document, etc.) from a Desktop object. Some questions come to mind such as: When the object is closed, would the Notes Client close or would the “interface” remain open as if you just opened the Notes Client from the OS? Authentication would still occur, unless authentication was “hooked” into the OS or (hopefully soon) Active Directory, so the user would see the “standard” Notes password screen which might not be what the user expected (just a thought).

   - Being able to drag attachments from a document to the native OS’s file browser (Windows = Explorer) and navigate to objects that could be found there such as objects found on the Desktop (Notes Applications/Databases, Views, Documents, SharePoint, etc.) or to names of Domino Servers that “could” be found in the OS’s file browser and then navigate the directories as if it was a File Server.

   - Being able to a (or multiple) document(s) from a View/Folder from a Notes Application (Mail or any other Notes Application) to any/all of the possibilities listed in the previous point, plus to an OS's file system and have it converted to something (XML?) that could be readable from another application.

   Note: Some of the File Browser access/interface actually existed(/exists) in Domino.doc. I haven’t used Domino.Doc in several years, but the ability to have Domino.Doc libraries show up in Windows Explorer was one interface that could be used. I always wondered why some fashion of this interface never surfaced in the Notes Client environment.

   Summary:

   - Workspace Interface

   - Welcome Page Interface

   - OS Interface (new)

   Each has its advocates, strengths and weaknesses. My concern is not which is best, because that is dependant upon the user. My concern is how is this presented / marketed. There are many features / capabilities of Lotus Notes that never make it to the marketing discussion. I am concerned this (multiple interfaces) will be one of them. In presentations it may never be mentioned, never included, never lauded and therefore never appreciated by current or perspective users. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea (especially the OS interface) of enhancing the interfaces (each of them). Hopefully we have all learned that the interface is not just a “toy”, it has to be taken seriously. I am just concerned that if the work is done to enhance/create better (multiple) interfaces that they are marketed in an equal manner and one is not shunned in favor of the others (as was the case of the Workspace in favor of the Welcome Page).

   Dale

1. 10  Peter Presnell  | 10/9/2008 9:57:01 AM

   Paul should be congratulated for going out there an opening up a meaningful discussion on the way we view tghe Notes client.

   Personally, I think the idea has a lot of merits. Not as a replacement but an alternative way of accessing my applications. I would suggest being able to easily take any Notes URL and represent it much like an "application" to the Operating System would provide greater flexibility on how I access Notes applications. I shouldn't need to think if a specific application is a Notes, Web, or other application so that I can then figure out how to get to it.

   As per a number of comments on this topic, I am not necessarily convinced that many operating systems presently provide a much better interface. But there is a lot of research going on in providing ways to intuitively cluster applications and tools into logical groups. And then there is the concept of mashups etc. in which we can view multiple applications together in a specific way. e.g. When I am doing regular task "A" I usually like to have the following (Notes and non-Notes) applications open and arranged across multiple monitors in a specific way. When I then switch to doing regular task "B" my needs change.

1. 11  Tripp Black http://www.mindwatering.com | 10/9/2008 10:33:58 AM

   Just our 3 cents...

   1.) Open notes:// link that opens directly to app is great. However, we'd need the ability from just Notes 8 (basic and standard) having that app only open to also toggle to full client to get mail and workspace. We are a notes shop and have lots of apps to be "in" during the day. We do a lot of breadcrumbs between apps. Which leads us to #2.

   2. We also use the Open in New Window. Which seams to be available for individual docs, but no longer different apps. That is frustrating to our users. (Yes, we have more and more of us w/2 monitors)

   3. I personally like the new workspace. Considering desktop/dock clutter, we'd have a hard time having that many icons on the desktop unless the XP/Vista toolbar and the Mac OS X doc were able to do something like the drawers/trays/folder we used to have in the OS/2 Warp "dock". The OS X dock folder has mostly caught up with this nice hack to make them moe intuitive: www.tuaw.com/2007/11/13/improve-your-stacks-with-some-drawers/. It would be really cool to have our Lotus app bookmarks we force down via policy not just be on the bookmark/open toolbar (we dock the open button) but have the ability to be in these folders.

1. 12  Colin Williams  | 10/9/2008 4:12:11 PM

   Not really convinced that surfacing Notes apps in Windows/OSX makes much sense. Maybe its just me but it seems like a waste of development effort given how long we've been wating for a workspace UI makeover. I've never been a fan of the Windows start menu experience and find that when I'm at work, I tend to start Notes and IE from the quicklaunch toolbar icons and thats my 95% of my application launching done and dusted as far as the OS is concerned.

   Once I'm in Notes, its an entirely different story. I use the Notes workspace myself for organising admin/dev database launching but unless there was some way to prepopulate it out of the box I don't think I'd ever consider it an end user feature.

   For our user base, we have a friendly/pretty/strongly branded Notes "welcome page" that I crafted. The most useful feature being the "quicklinks" menu that contains all the links to applications (Notes/Web/Exe's) a typical user needs to get their work done. If you've seen "Peanuts Portal" you get the general idea. Ours is just somewhat super charged to reduce clutter (submenus) and given our end users are by and large non-computer literate there is no end user customisation available. Its a "you get what you get" model; consistent and predictable which significantly reduces support issues. Most of our users don't even know what Lotus Notes is...they refer to their collaborative application platform as the first thing they see when they launch the client; "Steel.net".

   Piccie here to prove that Notes apps can look pretty (and yes as its creator, I am biased!) :) { Link }

   I think a revamp of the workspace is a good thing but keep it in Notes and give admins some control...and most importantly? Please make it pretty...iPhone pretty, if I must use that as a comparison AND its gotta be backed up. If I replace a PC or reinstall Notes, I don't want to have to reorg my chicklets yet again.

1. 13  Perry Hiltz http;//www.dominodiversions.com | 10/9/2008 5:23:32 PM

   I am completely in favor of a Workspace UI make over. The amount of intrinsic data contained in the desktop6.ndk is overwhelming. I work with a third party app that we use to remove and replace workspace icons.

   We do this by using dynamic rules based up on the replica ID's found inside the Desktop6.ndk and remove/add the icons for new servers whether they be in the same domain or a new one for a domain migration.

   Unfortunately due to client limitations we are only able to consistently do this on the Windows platform. What I truly love about the Notes Client is the ability to utilize multiple platforms. As result, there are varying differences in the individual platforms that make development of desktop tools for other platforms virtually infeasible. With the advent of smart phone devices and the widespread utilization of Java, would it make sense from a client interface, standardization, and version simplification if the workspace could be redesigned under Java or anything else that could easily port to not only mobile devices but also to other platforms such as Mac, and also flavors of UNIX?

   From a third party business partner perspective it makes our job much easier and broader if that could happen. The ability to move desktop icons programmatically becomes platform independent.

   Thanks.

1. 14  Removed.  | 10/10/2008 12:52:19 PM

   Comment removed at the request of the author.

1. 15  Jeff Picco  | 10/13/2008 9:32:49 PM

   I'm looking for a very responsive version of the Notes client that can give most of my users access to just their email, calendar, personal and enterprise contacts. Then if they choose to launch a Notes application, then have the client 'beef up' to support it as needed. For most in my company, the Notes client is just too big right now. Notes Buddy used to be a good alternative, but lacking the ability to spawn in to a bigger creature to support custom apps.