Putting an end to "Users want Outlook because they use it at home"

December 13 2008

Occasionally in a competitive situation, we will hear an assertion from a customer that "Our users want Outlook because they use it at home".  It's almost stated as a truism amongst Microsoft supporters, and I've even seen it asserted by a major industry analyst.

The thing is, it might have been true five years ago, but it is most certainly not true today.

In 2009, the majority of users using e-mail "at home" (their personal or consumer e-mail address) are using a web-based mail service.  Forrester Research published over a year ago indicated that 66% of online adults in North America use a web-based mail service.  While that percentage is likely lower in other regions of the world where bandwidth isn't as pervasive, it's clear that the trend line is in the direction of web-based consumer mail services.  POP and IMAP are useful protocols, and some are using these protocols combined with the web-based services to download multiple mail accounts into a single client.  But my admittedly-anecdotal experience suggests that even in those cases where an installed client is used, it's not Outlook or Outlook Express.

I think part of the reason is that Outlook is no longer commonly bundled with new PCs, while Outlook Express was stagnant and Windows Mail is not much more interesting.  A brief look at dell.com today shows only one version of Microsoft Office containing Outlook available as an add-on to a new machine -- and it's the small business edition at US$200.  Techies using clients have switched pretty aggressively to newer, more open, more extensible clients like Thunderbird or Apple's Mail.App....if they use a web-based service, it's almost always gMail.  

In fact, I did a brief Twitter/Facebook survey yesterday, asking what is obviously a more-technical crowd the question of what mail they use for personal e-mail -- web-based or installed client.  I received 128 responses (98% of them are public in the Twitter stream or on my Facebook page), and they broke down as follows:

  • 63% -- Web-based mail (Most were gMail or unspecified...few mentions of Hotmail or Yahoo or others)
  • 17% -- Thunderbird
  • 9% -- Other (e.g. Notes)
  • 8% -- Apple Mail
  • 3% -- Outlook/Outlook Express

There's clear evidence to me that web-based mail is universally of increasing interest, and I'm taking that to heart in the context of Lotus iNotes.  But my initial motivator for looking more into this topic was being tired of hearing that users push for Outlook in the workplace because they use it at home.  I'm sure there would be a way to conduct a broader mainstream survey that would reduce some of the bias of my sample base, but I'm equally sure that the results would be similar.  

Now, can we kill this talking point from the MS crowd once and for all?  

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Messaging  Add/View Comments [48]

Post a Comment

  1. 1  Volker Weber http://vowe.net/about | 12/13/2008 9:35:12 AM

    An echo chamber is quite obviously a dangerous thing.

    Three times as many Notes users (at home!) than Outlook/Express. More Gmail than Hotmail or Yahoo. Those numbers are off the chart.

    Outlook is king because it plays with all the equipment, software and services you buy.

    Webmail is popular because you can access it from anywhere. Even from many offices that suffer from bad corporate mail systems. And you are right in one respect: it will continue to replace Outlook. And Notes.

  1. 2  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/13/2008 9:41:04 AM

    I did not say three times as many Notes users -- I said "e.g. Notes" (and I know you know Latin...). There were some other random client answers in there, though nobody voted for PINE.

    Can you back up the assertion that "Outlook is king" with regard to my original focus -- the home/consumer market?

  1. 3  Volker Weber http://vowe.net/about | 12/13/2008 9:53:15 AM

    Sure. Let's make a scale from 1 to 10 (or whatever). If we put support for Outlook at 10 for

    - services like Facebook, Xing et al

    - syncing PIM data to mobile phones, pdas and iPods et al

    Where does Webmail and Notes come in on that scale?

  1. 4  Albert Buendia http://www.slug.es | 12/13/2008 10:20:32 AM

    What a pity. There is not a "Lotus Notes personal edition". Free, of course (a workspace to collect your pop3/imap accounts, not to connect to Domino servers). It could be, perhaps, a marketing way to popularize and extend the words "Lotus Notes". Obviously, Outlook is much popular because it has been shipped with MsOffice.

  1. 5  Ben Langhinrichs http://www.geniisoft.com/showcase.nsf/GeniiBlog | 12/13/2008 10:23:26 AM

    Leaving aside Volker's comments, which mostly seem to be trying to switch the subject, these numbers seem to be on the same scale that I see in the market, both among professionals in "Notes organizations" and those in "Exchange organizations", although many organizations at this point have some mix. Regardless, the common thread is that at home they use GMail. Five years ago, there was more hotmail or other web based mail, but virtually everyone in this self-selecting demographic (professionals in companies large enough to spend any time thinking about whether or not to use Exchange/Outlook or Domino/Notes for e-mail) uses GMail now.

    So, in regards to your earlier point, I would say that "our users use Outlook at home" is a completely dead argument. If anybody is making that sort of argument now, it should be revised to "my users use web mail and are used to that", which then makes the discussion about iNotes vs. Outlook Web Express.

  1. 6  Jess Stratton http://momelettes.com | 12/13/2008 10:31:17 AM

    Here's what I see for home users (and I see a lot of them, it's my job) - Ed is right on the money. Probably about 90% of my demographics use Yahoo! webmail, both for professional AND personal use. It's rare that I find a GMail user (though I'm willing to bet it's a demographic issue - people that are on the Internet deep enough to know about GMail generally don't need repair or training, so they don't require my services.)

    I don't think I've ever seen a Hotmail user (Windows Live) that was over 18 years old while I've been training.

    As for Outlook, I totally agree. Four years ago it WAS the "it software", as that was what all small businesses were using, even ones with one person.

    Now I believe Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot with that irritating "60 Day Trial" they include on all PCs now (At least that I've seen. Ed, while Outlook is not bundled directly, users seem to get a Trial version whether they want it or not.) When users who are buying new PCs reinstall their old copy to transfer to the new machine, the trial software interferes and they have to uninstall everything anyway.

    Also, you can't forget the 10% of users who SAY they are using Outlook, but it turns out it's really Yahoo! or Outlook Express. ;-)

  1. 7  Keith Strickland http://www.keithstric.com | 12/13/2008 10:33:34 AM

    But I think the main point is that the user's aren't at home, they're at work. The company they work for has to make a business decision on what email client to use that is best for the company. For very small businesses a web client will suffice (i.e. gmail, yahoo, hotmail, etc) but for larger operations a full on mail system is a must. These companies need to make a decision on what to use and it shouldn't be based on what people use at home. If they do the math on cost and roi and they want to use a major market mail player, there just isn't a better choice than Lotus. Especially when combined with Linux servers on the back end or heck, even linux workstations on the front end. That would knock the costs down to just the licensing costs for a Lotus solution.

  1. 8  Karen Demerly  | 12/13/2008 10:54:27 AM

    This study doesn't address the topic explicitly, but I still think it's relevant: "“New-Generation Workers” Want Technology Their Way, Accenture Survey Finds" { Link }

    In the past and even more so in the future, people have and will want to use what they know. And if they haven't grown up on or otherwise experienced (outside of work), a Notes application, they are less likely to bring it with them to the workplace.

    It's not enough for Notes to be web-enabled, imo. Users have to have experience with the product/app, to be SO comfortable with it that they know the keyboard shortcuts, say... THAT'S the "it's what I know" part.

    The day IBM gives it away is the day they start to win - because we all know it's a superior product.

  1. 9  David Schaffer http://bloginprogress.us | 12/13/2008 12:01:48 PM

    It depends on the user group. For folks with dialup or slow service or old computers Outlook Express is still pretty common.

  1. 10  Tripp Black http://www.mindwatering.com | 12/13/2008 12:45:00 PM

    Except for the Small Biz MS crowd, the bulk of the Outlook I see is Express. They use it because of one reason. It was what was installed on their first new PC when they got it out of the box.

    On their desktops were an IE logo that said "Internet" and another Express one for mail. It didn't matter that back then Netscape was installed and the "king" browser. It didn't say "Internet" right there on the desktop. I went from coding to Netscape and supporting IE to coding for IE and support Netscape and then Firefox and Safari. Same thing on the Mac, the non-techy Mac users I know run Safai - it's what came with their box. Because of one set of icons on the desktop of all the PCs. They captured a "generation" of adults that were just getting into computers - very smart. Next their foundation gave elementary schools free PCs with Windows and IE and Outlook Express. Yes, it's very wonderful, but it's also very business saavy - capture the kids and you might have a better chance of getting them for life. My first computer was at school it was an early Apple something. It was an intimidated thing. When I got to college a cute little Apple Macintosh with 2 floppies and black screen replaced it. It had a mouse and a GUI. Had Macs not been so much more expensive than PCs, I would have stuck to a Mac when I graduated.

    Back to the e-mail, at the job I was out when the Internet came to us, our 2nd e-mail client was Eudora. (The first was pure junk.) It actually handled attachments and they didn't have to manually be mimed and re-assembled. We used that untill we ditched our Netware 2.2 and 3.12 servers for someting called Exchange and Outlook. It did and does e-mail well enough, and nothing else. It still does nothing else except basically shared folders - big whoop. If it was just about e-mail, we would save some Passport run Postfix VM mail appliances w/Thunderbird.

    We use Notes, not because of e-mail but because of the other Apps. We have personal Apps, too. We have a home-school databases (er. apps), documents repository where we file our personal on-line business, we have personal web sites and blogs. All "Powered by Domino".

    It's the Apps that get's you happily hooked. It's the Apps that keep you on the platform. Each time you create a new App to solve another little business problem (a real business app or a personal recipe app), your that much more committed. Each new App can leverage a previous one. All our oldest 4.02 Apps still work just fine in 8.02 - even our @IFError code new in version 6 and depricated in 7.

  1. 11  Roland Reddekop  | 12/13/2008 1:00:40 PM

    On the topic of a consumer version of Notes, being a Notes/Domino Admin, I've personally been using Notes at home as my email client for years to download POP mail and upload SMTP mail (yes, I have a license). However, I switched ISP's which use a branded version of Gmail. My former ISP used a branded version of Hotmail and that worked fine with Notes 5, 6, 7, and 8 beta. But now that my ISP mailbox is Gmail, I cannot get mail to send from Notes 8.5 to Gmail because you need a secure protocol called STARTTLS (different from SSL SMTP), so I can receive but not send using the Notes client and Gmail.

    { Link }

    Maybe someone has the answer how to workaround this, but its proof that to make a home Notes client viable, there's some missing pieces that need to be put in place. It would be a strategic move IMHO to bundle a Notes lite client with Symphony.

  1. 12  Christian  | 12/13/2008 1:04:56 PM

    Hi,

    in Germany you can buy MS-Office-Home für 3 users for ca 140 €

    with OUTLOOK!!!

    99% schools have MS-Office!!!

    All Internet-Provider use and provide Outlook !!!!

    99% Programms have a Outlook-Port !!!

    It's very difficult to sell Notes, for normal-user it's not easy to install Notes.

    Perhaps you must try with Lotus-Organizer, it is the better way!

  1. 13  Henry Ferlauto http://www.geniusinside.com | 12/13/2008 1:14:30 PM

    On the sole question of does this put to rest the argument "our employees use Outlook at home;" yes it does. Many people do use some webmail service as their primary means.

    From a Microsoft perspective, I'm actually surprised at this point that Microsoft has not killed Outlook Express and make Outlook a loss leader and just bundle with Windows itself. They don't charge for the browser "client", why charge for the e-mail "client?" They can still have their CALs (client access licenses) for connecting to Exchange servers but for the client itself, why bother? Just put it on every PC and give the user the option to use it not. Just like with the web browser, those who want something else will use something else (like Firefox). The same should be true for the e-mail client.

    I would also love to use the Notes client as my personal pop-client, but since I can't control the "Display Name" without Domino, I don't.

  1. 14  Eric Mack http://www.NotesOnProductivity.com | 12/13/2008 2:10:57 PM

    No, Ed, I don't think we can kill this discussion.

    You bring up a good point of discussion. Thanks for engaging us in conversation.

    The numbers you post seem reasonable to me, based on my experience, but as many commenters have written, there are many for whom e-mail = Outlook or WebMail; at least that's the perception. As far as Notes for personal use, that's something I would like to see. I often recommend Notes for personal use by the process of getting into passport is a nightmare. Fortunately, I have had good success recommending that folks buy from CDW and let them handle the paperwork. It still takes up to a week.

    I believe that a customer expects to purchase his software in 5 minutes - or less.

    That said, I would like to see a free or limited version of Notes easily available and at low cost. Here's my proposal, based on something we researched for eProductivity { Link } for personal home users. What about making the Lotus Notes free or Low cost, when used apart from a Domino server? That's easy to do: if the user name us Name/Name that means he installed locally. have Notes detect this and know that it is free. This could be accomplished by IBM in a day. If a user gets an ID from work, we can assume that was paid for, Now, users get to download Notes, install it and use it - fast. (Whether you make it free or a nominal charge.)

    Now, if you wanted to go further, and this is a stretch, IBM could host a public email service like mac.com but make it easy for folks to have their own domains. Now, they get a great client for off-line access AND they can begin to experience COLLABORATION with the product, the very stuff that Notes excels at. Using this hosted model and traveller, you can then provide sync to mobile devices. Finally, if you make the designer client available at low cost to anyone/everyone with a penchant for creative problem solving, we might see more innovation in this space -- innovation from end users; people who will tell people...

    I know that this approach would make it much easier for people to evaluate and try software; more economical for people to experience Notes, and possibly help in the perception that Outlook or Web = e-mail.

    I think Notes rocks, and as long as I could get it to talk to my ISP, I would continue to use and recommend it - even if I had no server to connect to.

    Eric

  1. 15  Tim Haugen http://www.nationwide.com | 12/13/2008 2:21:08 PM

    We brought up the recommendation of providing a free, easy to install / wizard-ized, POP/SMTP Notes client a few times at GCPC (Global Customer Partner Council) meetings. It was met with about as much enthusiasm as IBM seems to have for any marketing outside of the CIO office.

    Can't disagree with the prevalence of web-based mail, but for those who prefer, need, and or can use a POP/IMAP client, why not try to encourage them to use Notes?

  1. 16  Henning Heinz  | 12/13/2008 2:36:16 PM

    Who is going to install a 500 MB download just to handle Pop or Imap mail (and Notes is not even good at that)?

    The most common Office Home Edition in Germany cost about 70 Euros but does NOT include Outlook.

    I fully agree that the "People use Outlook at home" argument is gone but the technologies that replaced it only have little in common with a Notes client. I think many Decision Makers with lots of Gadgets still use Outlook because it just syncs with everything. I see Google raising momentum in this area, especially for iPhone users (I do not have one so I cannot comment why this is the case).

  1. 17  Yuval  | 12/13/2008 3:24:13 PM

    Notes client is still a great tool to provide fast and stable applications to almost any organization that is ready to keep it (very few buying it if they don't already own it) but who will select it for its email client capabilities.?

    And one last thing about increasing this old product popularity –why IBM is still not giving notes for free for home/personal use? how many paying customers do you have with 1-5 licenses? a 100 in the entire world? give it for free for home and very small businesses that will never even consider to pay for it (or for foundations) and buy this product at list 10 more years of intrest.

    and if you want a place to prototype this idea, why not trying us at the holy land ? nobody will be able to use the Hebrew version elsewhere anyway :-)

  1. 18  David Schaffer http://bloginprogress.us | 12/13/2008 3:52:38 PM

    For years every Thinkpad came with a Notes license. Did anyone ever use them?

  1. 19  Peter Wilson  | 12/13/2008 4:07:32 PM

    More and more people are certainly using webmail clients, due to their convience and increasing ease of use (ie. drag and drop features like their fat client equivalents). So Domino/Notes really needs to focus on those features so that if companies can consider a fully webmail solution. As for a simple easy to use email client at home, maybe IBM to develop something and bundle it with Symphony?

    Pete

  1. 20  Eric Mack http://www.EricMackOnline.com | 12/13/2008 4:40:02 PM

    I neglected to mention that I do NOT position Notes as an email client for personal use. I DO position it is an outstanding tool for Information, Communication (including email), and Action management. For these three reasons alone, I am always willing to recommend Notes, even to individuals.

    David Allen and I will talk more about this on opening day at Lotusphere. { Link }

    Eric

  1. 21  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 12/13/2008 5:39:18 PM

    I think the real issue is that often we hear "users Like Outlook, they use it at home" but they have no proof. I've heard this from CIOs and senior IT managers at companies with 1000, 5000 and 25000 users. Unless they've gone round and asked the users they couldn't possibly know... and therefore they're making a potentially very costly and risky decision on a gut feeling. Imagine spending millions on developing and launching a new product based on a gut feeling that the public might like it. Would a board of directors sanction that decision?

  1. 22  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/13/2008 7:20:45 PM

    @15 and I remain unconvinced, even with the comments here today, that it's the right strategy to do a "personal Notes" for e-mail again. Given the free and ubiquitous nature of Thunderbird, Mail.App, and yes Windows Mail, what would be the reason anyone would choose a Notes client instead? Eric is on the right thought with productivity applications...this is something I continue to think about.

    But think about this - Lotuscript support in Symphony. Symphony == free. How many of you use Symphony as a free giveaway product from IBM? I know some of you do, but in every such comment above where someone suggests a free mail client version of Notes, substitute Symphony and see if the thought remains the same. I see Symphony as the easiest seeding route and am looking at many more ways to do so.

    Meanwhile, as Ben L and a few others picked up, my point in this posting wasn't at all to position the Notes client for home use. Rather, it was to position against Outlook as the perceived incumbent. Nobody has offered evidence to the contrary, so far.

  1. 23  chuck dean http://www.lotussmb.com | 12/13/2008 9:35:26 PM

    My latest blog post details the trials I've gone through trying to recreate the same experience I had with the Notes interface at work after losing my job in a corporate merger/restructuring. I avoided Outlook Express or Outlook just to be bullheaded about it.

    I explored a pure webmail environment with Gmail and added some tweaks from Google Labs to let me have calendar, documents and a task list on the screen but Gmail sucks in the contact management department - so it's not my final solution. I'm running the Thunderbird mail client with the Lightning extension to get calendar, mail and to-do list and use imap connectivity to Gmail. This gives me the ability to search my in-box about as well as I could through Notes... but getting Google Calendar syncing with Lightning meant more searching, tweaking and hacking.

    With the addition of Remember the Milk for task management, a couple of other apps to let me tweak my calendar with a desktop gadget (Rainlendar), the Digby IM client and the Mozpod extension to let me sync contacts and calendar with my iPod (had to turn in the corporate Blackberry too...) I've probably gotten back to about 85% of what I had with the Notes client and BES.... but it took a LOT of work and wasn't something the average user would go through. There were LOTS of options to do similar things with Outlook Express - native support with the iTunes, better contact syncing tools.. etc.

    I do think the idea of a free for personal use Notes client is a great idea and that it makes for a natural tie-in with Symphony.

    Heck I'd go for it even if you stuck me with an ad gadget in part of the side bar and made it add supported.

    Whether people are still using the Outlook Express client on their desktop or not is they still know it's there and come to feel Outlook is synonymous with email. Most of them don't go on to be CIOs... but CEOs and CFOs and other VPs and managers who whine and complain about their email client cause a lot of changes to happen.

  1. 24  Gavin Bollard http://dominogavin.blogspot.com | 12/13/2008 9:40:11 PM

    I've been working very hard on this for the last few years and we've had a huge measure of success. It's now corporate policy in our company to set new employees up with a Notes account for work and (unless they already have one) a GMAIL Account for home.

    Everyone's computer has a home page of Google but we're encouraging them to use the igoogle page - and to add gadgets - anticipating that they'll want to use them in Notes 8 too.

    The idea behind this is firstly for DRP. If something happens to our office, we can still share documents via Google Docs (with some security - though probably not as much as we currently enjoy). We're also trying to "grow" the Web 2,0 knowledge in the company so that users will be better placed to use the Notes 8+ functionality.

    Most of our users have gone on to promote Google amongst their own families...helping us to put more pesticide on that outlook express infestation.

  1. 25  Karen Demerly  | 12/13/2008 9:41:16 PM

    No one in the decision-making chair at my workplace said they want to migrate to MS because they use Outlook at home. They said they want it because everyone else uses Outlook at work. (Nobody said they were right; I'm just relaying what they said.) At work, Outlook is the perceived incumbent.

    So yes, "It's what I use at home." no longer applies. But, "It's what I used at my last job," still does.

  1. 26  Andy Steven http://www.uptime100.com.au | 12/13/2008 11:22:10 PM

    A lot of people can't see the forest for all the trees.

    It seems clear everyone wants webmail, it's quick, easy, etc etc..

    It is logical that people also want their data easily accessible on the web.

    Ever tried getting a secure MS Access database on the web?

    This is the thing Notes does so well, any fool can get a secure web database happening.

    It's what every company wants, they just don't think it's possible because the plethora of MS people tell them it's horribly hard and expensive.

    Push this side of things, make anyone with a file server look 1990's, dorky. behind the game.

    'Oh you can't access your XYZ system on an iPhone, chuckle, huckle..'

    I discovered Notes by luck a few years ago, all my collegues (SMB market in Adelaide) still hassle me about it. But do any of their sites have real web enabled business, NO WAY!!

    Forget about Outlook vs Notes, think Notes vs Access, Notes vs Files, Notes vs OUtlook.

  1. 27  Andy Steven http://www.uptime100.com.au | 12/13/2008 11:25:18 PM

    @25 this is an important point, no one wants to be seen to go it alone.

    It is one of the most important factors in sales psychology, people will go with the flow.

    This is a serious hurdle.

    IBM need to do something to start a 'flow', they need to think outside the square. Exchange is killing Domino in Australian SMB market.. it's hard work

  1. 28  alan lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 12/14/2008 12:02:55 AM

    What about having iNotes be a pop/IMAP client to other mail services? Has there been a mail decision about Blue House? (perhaps announced at Lotusphere?) Giving people email, contacts, file sharing, web conferencing and more in a tight integrated package is such a great idea, but sadly I've not seen any traction for Blue House.

  1. 29  Christian  | 12/14/2008 5:10:42 AM

    99% our new users, can work with outlook, without any training! because they use Outlook at home.

    most of them don't know anything about notes. perhaps they heared 123 or organizer.

    Lotus 8.5 is good only for profi-users aber its very difficult and complex for normal-users. its very difficult to inspire the new users.

    you must ask clerks, they work with Notes!

    The developers seeing this from another eye!

  1. 30  Rav  | 12/14/2008 5:32:55 AM

    Perception is far more important than facts I'm afraid - people believe what they want to believe despite any tangible evidence to the contrary.

    Everyone knows this whole "everyone has Outlook at home" thing is spurious nonsense so you have to look at WHY this is perceived to be true and set about changing the perceptions.

    The problem is, asking the question "WHY" always raises very difficult and uncomfortable questions not only about the opposition but about one's own actions and mistakes - and that's a level of introspection and honesty that is very rare in large corporations.

  1. 31  Par Aberg http://www.mementa.se | 12/14/2008 7:45:46 AM

    E-mail is exceptionally uninteresting and the one of the greatest obstacles to advances in productivity at this point in time.

    Only IT-people are stupid enough to even put one hour of effort into convincing people to convert to something that is perceived as "better".

    Email should be minimized with regard to both usage and cost. We all know that there are tools are available to accomplish this.

    Simple as that....

  1. 32  Juhan Wurtz  | 12/14/2008 10:12:08 AM

    Lotus notes has never been "easy" to start using when comparing with outlook. Even notes is more better! This is the thing which is not easy to admit! We are just humans you know. More better software does not mean that now everyone just change from office to lotus. The MS is very aggressive at the moment on europe. They deliver "free" migration tools to company's which are moving away from notes.

  1. 33  Charles Robinson http://www.cubert.net | 12/14/2008 10:46:31 AM

    I think your initial premise is absolutely correct. Home users are not using Outlook or Outlook Express as much and most have switched to webmail.

    My niece did a coop job with a company that used Outlook. She opted for OWA instead because she had such a hard time with Outlook. OWA was easier for her.

    People like to use what they know, or barring that, the closest thing that's similar.

    I'm not sure why on Earth you dragged Symphony into the discussion. Does it do e-mail now?

  1. 34  Karen Demerly  | 12/14/2008 11:23:15 AM

    I will say, the fact that 8 out of 10 of the top 10 Fortune 500 companies use Notes/Domino (I don't have that fact at my fingertips, but it was brought up here a few weeks ago, I believe - I may have some of it wrong, but don't have time to dig it up right now.) is a compelling argument against "everyone else uses MS/Outlook". I think it begs the question - would you rather be like the rest, or be like the best? That, imo, is a strong argument. And one IBM should be making.

    Eli Lilly and Caterpillar use Notes, as far as I know. My bosses should know that too. But I don't think they do. I think they know what they used at their old jobs, and that MS has the majority at this point. All they need to know, in their opinions (and that's what they pitch to the CEO, who remembers MS at HIS old job.)

    If I'd have heard that fact sooner (8 out of 10 at the top), I would have been throwing it out left and right.

  1. 35  Kevin Pettitt http://www.lotusguru.com | 12/14/2008 12:58:51 PM

    @22 - Ed even before I read your thought on using Symphony as a "seeding route" for Notes I was on board with that idea. As many have pointed out, getting folks to look at Notes for just email when there are so many more compelling email-only products is a fool's errand. The driver that I think will work best is showing people a way to save a few hundred bucks by not buying MS Office. Then move on from there.

    So, with Symphony as the sharp end of the spear, you would:

    - Make sure Symphony can open Office 2007 files.

    - Add PIM/Email functionality with the core Notes client

    - Deal with spam and viruses. People have gmail accounts because it handles this stuff well. Many folks will use Notes to access their gmail/yahoo and be fine, but some will need help in this area. The closer to free the better (keep in mind this whole exercise is about brand building). Lotus Protector might tie in here somehow.

    - Include a bunch of built-in templates to do common business documents (e.g. fax template), but that also include easy mail merge capability to tie Notes contacts or any spreadsheet into Symphony docs.

    - Make sure Notes client can export/import data directly to/from Symphony Spreadsheets, and specifically provide an easy option for contacts that supports whatever common formats that can be exported from Outlook, Gmail, Yahoo, etc. Go one step further and do like LinkedIn and offer to import your addresses for you automagically.

    - Use Traveler "Desktop Edition" to sync Email/PIM to their smartphone/mobile device, with an upsell to a server-based wireless option hosted by IBM or rebranded through the telecoms.

    - For a nominal fee allow users to effectively replicate, or do a "server sync" of all their Notes data (and maybe docs too), so they have an easy way to restore that data should their machine blow up. For a little more, maybe they could keep a couple different machines in sync on a continuous basis.

    - Notes applications should work, with some provision for identifying when an app has server-only functionality or cross-db lookups that make it misbehave in a standalone context. Users should simply be able to create a little FileMaker/Access type db and send it to their buddy.

    - Give away Designer in some form. Perhaps without certain design elements like web services that only make sense in server-based scenarios. Maybe with just forms, views/folders, framesets, pages, outlines, images. Maybe there are some suitable templates that could be included that are just for personal use (invoicing, document library, etc.). In another symphony tie in, maybe you could allow easy creation of a Notes form that uses a symphony spreadsheet as a backend...just thinking out loud here.

    - Still allow access to a corporate Domino server and all applications simply by letting users "add account" or some such metaphor. You assume that licensing is covered, and of course would have to have your corporate Notes ID to get it done. While I don't think many folks would even want to have a combined mail db (persona/corporate), they would want to be able to have both mail apps open at the same time sending/receiving messages. Don't know about the mechanics of this given the current options, but it wouldn't have to be a 1.0 capability.

    - Do all that while supporting MacOS and Linux. In the Linux case, you could offer a free CD that includes Ubuntu + Symphony + Notes and would allow a user to rebuild an old Windows machine that they might otherwise feel compelled to replace by spending money they don't have. Do THAT, and you'll get a ton of (inter)national press coverage considering the state the economy is in right now...just do it quickly. If the install can handle porting over the user's documents, emails, bookmarks, etc., all the better.

    Will this approach turn the market completely upside down and kill MS Office? Of course not, but it will put a crimp in Microsoft's profits. It will also, and more importantly, give a huge boost to the Lotus brand and make it easier to tell the rest of the Lotus story, so we all make more money in the end.

  1. 36  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/14/2008 1:02:24 PM

    ...well, maybe all except me, since I still have to run the Notes/Domino business profitably ;-) That's one of the inhibitors that has always gotten in the way of these discussions... would love to do a dozen really interesting things to seed more Notes presence in the market, but we can't do so while still meeting/exceeding those pesky business commitments. Still, I want to do some of these things, and take some different angles to others... I bewlieve you'll start to see more of this melding between corporate and personal in our message in 2009.

  1. 37  Kevin Pettitt http://www.lotusguru.com | 12/14/2008 1:08:22 PM

    Oh, and for the little one-man business with dreams of expansion, knowing they could easily upgrade to a Server-based express offering only makes the Sympony+Notes bundle more compelling while turning them into ambassadors for Notes inside all their (larger) clients.

  1. 38  Niels Jørgen Hansen  | 12/14/2008 4:13:08 PM

    @12 Office 2007 Home edition does NOT include Outlook. The cheapest Office 2007 edition including Outlook is Office Standard Edition - costing 5 times more than the home edition. I bet you almost no private person would buy this.

    There was a huge discussion around this around the time when Office 2007 was announced. Microsoft defended their decision by stating that according to their numbers only 9% used Outlook from home.

    Outlook express is an old product that is no longer developed. Outlook express shipped with Windows XP - Windows Vista comes with Windows Mail. An entirely different looking client - no way resembling Outlook. Microsoft has confirmed that the next edition of Windows - Windows 7 - will not include a mail client!

    People using Outlook from home either use Outlook because they have access to it from work (why would you not if you already have it there - notice argument is work to home not the other way around) or they use a pirated copy (getting ever harder to do).

    Outlook from home - yeah right.

  1. 39  Donovan http://seriousmobile.blogspot.com | 12/14/2008 4:13:51 PM

    Maybe, just maybe a second part of this survey should've asked those using Web-based email service - how do you retrieve/view/send your email?

    1> Outlook

    2> Notes client

    3> Smartphone

    4> Mobile phone

    5> Thunderbird

    6> Other desktop/laptop client application with settings for POP3/IMAP?

  1. 40  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/14/2008 4:20:35 PM

    @39 I don't understand -- there's no browser-based choice in there. It is true some of the respondents indicated they use a web-based service but use a client to retrieve/send mail....I counted those as client users not web users.

  1. 41  Keith Brooks http://www.vanessabrooks.com | 12/14/2008 6:54:38 PM

    @17 yuval, I have and do on occasion use the Hebrew version when I need to.

    Ed, my thoughts on this are your survey may not be a good representation.Asking Notes people, and they do make up many of your facebook/twitter people, what would you expect them to say?

    Why not go to one of the largest notes user shops and ask their employees what they use?

    That would be interesting I think.

    Or just create a site on ibm.com asking for 100,000 replies to the question what email do you use when not at work.

  1. 42  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/14/2008 7:19:18 PM

    Not all my followers are in the Notes crowd... I received plenty of responses from non-Notes people. Besides, I am not sure how asking Notes people about personal e-mail means that they are a biased group, how exactly?

  1. 43  Clayton Price  | 12/14/2008 8:03:19 PM

    People want choice, and as IT professionals we need to acknowledge this and provide multiple ways for them to consume information and communicate with each other.

    Just like the music CD, an installed email client (whatever brand) will die! People have voted with their feet when you consider gMail, Hotmail and Yahoo. A "home Notes client" would be a return to the 1990's and the next generation we are looking to service will reject it in my opinion.

    Should there be a difference between work and home??? I'm not sure.

    Good conversation string though.

    BTW: The organisation I work for actually blocks access to web based email services. So I cannot choose the way I access my personal email from the office but I can choose the organisation I work for!

  1. 44  Martijn de Jong http://ics.ilionx.com | 12/15/2008 6:01:55 AM

    @11 So far I've never seen an ISP who, next to their webmail service, did not provide an smtp server to send mail through, so something like smtp.yourisp.com. Check your ISP for their address and use that in Notes as your outgoing mail server.

    @13 In the location document of your Notes client, write the Internet Mail Address as "Your Display name" <your internet address> to be able to choose a display name for outgoing mail.

    On the mail client topic. Some of my non technical friends still use Outlook Express as their mail client, but most indeed do use a webmail client. However, when I giving Notes 8 courses the biggest complainers are the people who used Outlook in their former company (like @25 suggested) and that is a bigger battle these days than the "My users use Outlook at home" argument. Biggest complaint btw is that Notes can't send emails as an attachment in another mail, like Outlook can.

  1. 45  NeilT  | 12/15/2008 9:19:47 AM

    Ed, as someone who used Windows95 in Beta with Exchange 4.0 client (nothing to do with Exchange but there you go), I have never used Notes as my personal mail client. Why? Because it has never been a quality personal mail client, too hooked into the back end for that. So it is absolutely NO surprise that senior execs “Know” that the only mail system that is Not going to be at home is Notes. Therefore they can say “People like Outlook because they use it at home” and get away with it because nobody is going to say

    “Hey people like Notes too because they use it at home”

    Of course you could say that I don’t know what I’m talking about; but even when I was setting up ETRN services on Domino 4.6 SMTP and dial up ISDN, for a corporate customer, you would have had the same answer from me.

    It has nothing to do with whether Outlook really is in the home or not. It has to do with the fact that many people hate Notes and the further they rise up the ladder the more they look for reasons not to use it. The challenge to IBM is to change that viewpoint and, sadly, IMHO, Notes 8 is not the tool to do that.

    The most interesting part of this discussion has come from Andy @26. Put his ideas together with some kind of central registry and an ability to reach out through the home firewall and you have some serious capability. Not that I would expect IBM to see that. I’m not even sure I’d like Notes to take that place instead of slowly being killed by a thousand cuts from it’s myriad of competitors. IBM and Lotus before them have shown a limitless lack of ability to grasp opportunities for a little effort and, instead, produce products that are middle of the road in business and mediocre in the home.

    Do a Google. Get a bunch of interns to brainstorm it and see where you get to. You need that level of rethinking and you would be surprised how little it would take to achieve.

    As for Symphony being your best avenue for disseminating this? If that were true, openoffice would have swept MS Office away long, long ago. Why companies would take this sort of software just because they can pay IBM for support is a question indeed. The goal is to reduce the overall cost, not add in additional cost again in services.

    As for home users? They are bombarded with Office from the moment they go to a shop to buy a PC. Symphony? You go the theatre for that don’t you? I don’t know anyone outside the IT world (or unlinked from it), who has a clue what Symphony is about. At which point penetration into the home market becomes a moot point……

  1. 46  Sylvain  | 12/15/2008 2:32:34 PM

    Fwiw, I never heard anything close to this comment during the many years I consulted and worked on Notes (93-2001), years during which Outlook Express was actively developed and maintained. I did hear that many people simply preferred OE *because* they had Outlook at work. For those who did not have Outlook at work, OE came bundled with Windows at home so they used it anyway. Their email domain was often their ISP's and very few of those had a webmail interface. The latter were very, very poor anyway. (The first iNotes was amazing compared to the Hotmails of the world imo)

    But whether they had used Outlook at work or at home, all preferred its user experience to Notes'. Like it or not, the latter acquired a bad reputation all those years (to this day, my mentioning I worked on Notes still brings tales of email UI pain <sigh>); it makes me wonder if, instead of implicitly talking down to our users for quite some time - "But <snort> Notes is not simply a mail client <snort>" all while arguing mail seat licensing stats - we should have invested much more in that area than we did.

    Yes, there was value in mail being just another app template. But there was also a cost to it - perceived and real - that many users felt they paid every working day.

    So of course, if you wait long enough - until OE is discontinued, until webmail is really good and until the number of users who bother to use their ISP's email acccount decreases - then sure, last decade's saying will sound wrong.

    But so much has changed since then - even three years ago at IBM I alrady read nearly as much email over the web and on my smartphone than I did on my Notes client - I'm not sure that proves much. Except maybe that some people stick to conventional wisdoms a long time after their shelf date.

  1. 47  Andy Steven http://www.uptime100.com.au | 12/15/2008 3:59:09 PM

    @45 Neil, I agree, they just don't get it. They seem blissfully unaware the Lotus Notes is now irrelevent in small business (less than 50 users) and 99% people have never heard of it or used it.

    It's a shame because it is the perfect small business product.

    It's not all roses, IBM need to do some serious work to get it back on track.

  1. 48  Patrick Kwinten http://quintessens.wordpress.com | 12/16/2008 4:11:02 AM

    I love the advertisements on hotmail/windows live - NOT!