Really glad we’re working so hard to formally support Notes 8.5.1 on Windows 7

December 8 2009

Much as Microsoft loves to poke at IBM for having different businesses that sometimes are in conflict with each other, they are apparently suffering similar problems.  While on the one hand desiring ISVs such as IBM to quickly support Windows 7, Microsoft is simultaneously allowing their technical leaders to declare Notes "incompatible" with Windows 7 -- which it is not.  Notes runs fine on Windows 7, and IBM will imminently announce formal support for Notes 8.5.1 on both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows 7.  Yet somehow Microsoft Services -- a bastion of independent thought, to be sure -- sees Lotus Notes as a problem, according to ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley:

"There's also the question as to whether customers really need an (incompatible) application," [MS Services CTO Norm] Judah said. When performing an evaluation, customers have a chance to figure out which apps are worth taking the trouble to try to fix vs. which can be "discarded," he said. Judah cited as an example of an app that might be discardable as Lotus Notes... And no, I'm not kidding.

(Maybe if Microsoft is throwing in a free copy of Exchange plus offering to do all the migration work from Notes to Exchange. Otherwise, I'd tend to think Notes might fall more into the "mission critical" than the "who cares" department.)
Yes, there's Microsoft, that enterprise provider, looking out for your needs as a customer by telling you to throw out your furniture because you are moving into a new house.  Always looking after your IT budget, that Microsoft.  They are *so* helpful.  

Link: ZDNet: Windows 7 compatibility problems? Microsoft might have an app (or service) for that > (via Duffbert)

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Microsoft  Add/View Comments [24]

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  1. 1  Handly Cameron http://handly.blogspot.com | 12/8/2009 9:35:05 PM

    Hmm. Outlook 2007 also does not list Windows 7 on their compatible OS list ({ Link } I guess Microsoft Services should also be recommending that Outlook should be discarded as well!

    In fact, with the IBM announcement imminent, will Lotus Notes be the only major email application available for Windows 7 for the next six months? :)

  1. 2  Handly Cameron http://handly.blogspot.com | 12/8/2009 9:36:04 PM

    Fixed link without the trailing parenthesis: { Link }

  1. 3  Tim Lorge http://www.groupwarenews.com | 12/8/2009 10:18:29 PM

    Yeah but Ed ... just think how much easier it is to throw out your furniture. The expense?? Bahhh don't worry about that. Do you really want to scrimp and save ... in this economy? Really??? Are you that broke??? Live high on the hog ... go ahead!

    I mean really ... this is the new millennium. Get with it man!

    Why on earth would you want a 20 year old infinitely stable product that just runs, has bazillions of great apps created by great partners and doesn't require a rip and replace for every upgrade?

  1. 4  Lars Olufsen http://www.olufsphere.com | 12/9/2009 3:43:22 AM

    It's just yet another way to get an opportunity to "sell" the concept of migration.

    When the customers get in touch with them over the lack of compatibility, MS can send in the sales team.

  1. 5  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 12/9/2009 5:26:16 AM

    I've said it before... most customers wait until at least the first point release of Notes before deploying. But we're seeing a number of customers happy to deploy Windows 7 very soon after it's release - it just seems like double-standards.

  1. 6  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 12/9/2009 7:06:04 AM

    @5 - People trust the Windows Automatic Update process more than SmartUpdate, I guess. Or maybe it simply requires less work to use it.

  1. 7  Roger Hintz  | 12/9/2009 7:22:08 AM

    @5 - That's because Vista was soooooo bad.

  1. 8  Timothy Briley  | 12/9/2009 8:54:16 AM

    @6 - People are using Windows Automatic Update to move from Vista to Win7?

  1. 9  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 12/9/2009 9:20:32 AM

    @8 - I don't know. But they might be using it to apply Fix packs & Service Packs to Windows, which effectively applies the point releases. Darren's statement was that people wait for point releases for Notes, where they don't for the OS, so one would think that the process for applying the point release is perceived differently by those people.

  1. 10  Timothy Briley  | 12/9/2009 9:43:28 AM

    @6 - Darren, some clarity here?

  1. 11  Charles Robinson http://www.cubert.net | 12/9/2009 10:36:51 AM

    @1 - As Andre Guirard pointed out on Tom's blog, the requirements for Office 2007 say "... or later operating system". You're making up an issue that isn't one.

    @5 - I think the upgrade hesitation is a combination of things. Windows is often considered little more than window dressing. As long as it doesn't actively impede the average user from doing his job, it's not really given much thought. After all, how much time does the average user actually spend working with Windows per se?

    Notes, on the other hand, is often critical to a company's operations. Upgrades have to be tested and re-tested and every function and feature of every Notes application has to be thoroughly investigated. People have a much lower tolerance for change when it affects their daily job duties, so things that would be a low-level issue for an OS upgrade become blockers to Notes upgrades.

    For example, Windows Explorer moved stuff around in Windows 7. Users don't spend a lot of time in Windows Explorer, so they adjust and move on. By way of contrast, shortcut keys moved around in Notes 8. People with years of muscle memory suddenly have to learn a new way of doing things. That leads to trouble tickets being opened, SPR's being created, and things changing in dot-one.

  1. 12  David  | 12/9/2009 2:06:40 PM

    Must be nice to be unencumbered by obstacles like honesty, integrity, and ethics when pursuing other people's money.

  1. 13  Mike Robinson http://www.invcs.com | 12/9/2009 2:49:20 PM

    Hmm, not sure, but I'm not seeing any enteprise (okay so I only know about 4 or so over 40,000+ users) that have no immediate plans to move any desktops from XP to Win7 any time soon. Do you know what sort of desktop image recertification hell they must undergo? Anti-Virus, Productivity Apps, custom apps, etc. all would need to be re-certified. Citrix? MS has a bigger fish to fry convincing it's customers that's it worth it right now to move a completely stable working OS-Platform to something just b/c it's new. In fact when our customers by new PCs from Dell or whichever vendor and it comes w/ Win7 it gets re-imaged with XP.

    I'm sure it'll be talked about, but implemented in the next 18 months, I doubt it.

  1. 14  Ports http://www.mrports.com/ | 12/9/2009 3:07:20 PM

    @6 Perhaps because Windows 7 is really Vista SP3 rather than an .zero release. If you check the version in a DOS box, Vista was 6.0 and Windows 7 is 6.1

    I have had no problems running Notes 8.5.1, Symphony 1.3 and Sametime 8.1 on my Win7 home machine.

  1. 15  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 12/9/2009 3:09:30 PM

    @13 I am seeing a few customers considering early adoption of Windows 7 in larger organizations, but my sense is that it is being pushed/subsidized by Microsoft guys like Norm Judah.

  1. 16  Bjørn Cintra http://www.workplace.no | 12/9/2009 4:30:55 PM

    @14 I love Microsoft bashing as much as the next guy, but this is simply not true. Windows 7 is a major release. { Link }

  1. 17  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 12/9/2009 5:28:49 PM

    @10 and @11 - my thought process was this... is it more risky to upgrade one application or the entire OS underneath it? I see Charles' point of view, but if you have the OS crashing on a thousand PCs that's pretty bad news.

    @14 - I agree Ports, Windows 7 is like a major Vista point release, so it's a safer option than the jump from XP to Vista. But as Roger @7 eludes to, one of Windows 7's biggest selling points is that it's not as bad as it's predecessor. Is that analogous to being okay to be dating a bank robber because they're not a murderer? ;o)

  1. 18  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 12/9/2009 5:34:51 PM

    @17 - not that I'm suggesting that Windows 7 will be crashing all over the place. My understanding is that it's a good quality release. I was just asking the question about the biggest potential impact if problems arise.

  1. 19  Mika Heinonen http://www.siipi.com/mika | 12/9/2009 6:18:56 PM

    Windows 7's biggest problem is that it doesn't run Windows programs. Some do, but many don't. It seems you need to buy all your software again, and watch out or the label: "Windows 7 only software" (It won't run on Windows 8 again, which comes out in 2 years). However, since Lotus Notes is from ground on designed to be cross-platform, it runs on every Windows version, even on Linux/Mac WINE. LOL, and I found out few weeks ago that you can't use Office 2007 with SharePoint 2007, when some people still use Office 2003, what happens is that all the cumulative calculation in SharePoint goes nuts and resets itself. So, if your company has even one Office 2003 user, you can't upgrade to Office 2007. However, you could just install Debian and use OpenOffice, and need no training for the users as you do with Office 2007 (it's a horror to use, even advanced IT personnel can't find the File menu, it looks like someone on drugs redesigned the UI, without caring about any global standard rules for UI design guidelines).

  1. 20  Kevin Mort http://www.theglobalmind.com | 12/9/2009 7:52:36 PM

    At least Mary Jo was keen enough to call Norm out on the statement. I mean really, you can just discard infrastructure?

    Yea let me know how that works out for you.

  1. 21  Brett Hershberger  | 12/11/2009 10:52:19 AM

    Kudos to the author for that bit about Notes being in the "mission critical" department, in effect slamming down what Judah had said.

  1. 22  Ian Scott  | 12/11/2009 2:54:36 PM

    @14/@19 - that's quite funny: if Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1 then Windows 8 could well be Windows 7.0 yet it won't run Windows 7 programs. IBM's lawyers would never allow that to get out the door!

  1. 23  Chris Reckling  | 12/19/2009 8:56:47 AM

    It seems like the MS guy is actually making an argument to stay with XP if your current apps don't work with Win 7. Maybe companies should start looking at linux desktops as long as they have to go thru the upgrade pain.

    Chris

  1. 24  MarvinK  | 12/19/2009 11:36:54 PM

    I'm sure many of the companies that skipped Vista have taken at least some look at Linux on the desktop (which works great with Notes now). Notes works on Windows 7 64-bit for me, but because of Eclipse it gives the impression of a clunky incompatible app (primarily because of the method of launching making it not act 'normal' with the Windows 7 start bar). It's also what makes it take so long to launch and make it especially unhappy about anti-virus. I like Notes 8.5.1, but wish IBM could figure out a way to bring a modern interface to Windows and still make it act and perform like a Windows app. Unfortunately, our company is deploying the basic client because of the quirkiness of the standard Eclipse version. We'll also be deploying Windows 7.