Redirect iPhone > /yes/i/know

June 9 2008

Yes, I know, today was the Stevenote at WWDC (translation = Steve Jobs keynote at Apple's Worldwide Developer's Conference) and there was no mention of Lotus support for the iPhone and lots of mention of support for Exchange.

The story remains the same as it has since Lotusphere.  Domino Web Access -- now renamed back to iNotes -- will ship an "ultralite" mode in Q3 (probably August) that is supported on the iPhone's Safari browser.  This support will also be in Domino 8.5.

Third parties such as Sybase iAnywhere also support the iPhone with Domino today, mainly through IMAP.

As for an installed local client, in the mode of Lotus Notes Traveler, there is no news.  To somewhat defensively respond to the e-mails and pings today, yes, I know, this is really important.  Yes, I know, this would be helped if Lotus marketing was better.  Yes, I know, the CEO uses an iPhone.  Yes, I know, Apple released an SDK.

The SDK doesn't do it, folks.  Microsoft's activesync integration is deeper into the device than that.  Apple knows that we are interested.  Lotus has people at WWDC and talking to Apple regularly.  But Apple needs to hear it from you.  It's much more credible and urgent coming from an Apple customer who wants to buy hundreds of devices that they themselves now label as "Enterprise", but that the enterprise uses something other than what they built with..

IBM is continuing in its efforts, here, and this post is in no way trying to minimize that responsibility.  It is only intended to acknowledge all those e-mails and pings that we've been getting today -- you are not falling on deaf ears, even if your answer isn't coming in the time and place you want it.

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  In the news  Add/View Comments [114]

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  1. 1  Mark Hughes  | 6/9/2008 3:39:46 PM

    Anyone in particular or any blog we can send our wishes to at Apple? Our company does not have a rep or any other Apple product to speek of. They are kind of a faceless org, but we have access to IBM execs :)

  1. 2  Luke  | 6/9/2008 4:09:04 PM

    For our organization, this is becoming a deal-breaker. I was wondering if others are facing the same issue. Our organization has gone to a web-based strategy across the board. No Notes clients are installed now: All users use DWA. I think this was a great strategic direction for us, because as third party development lessens more and more with the Domino platform, making a switch to a different web-based mail client (Gmail, Outlook Web Access, Apple "Me" announced today) is an easier conversation to have. I know we'd love to continue to leverage our investment in Notes, but as the web client (DWA) crawls along to get feature parity with any free web client, the organization is paying more in maintenance than new tooling costs. Really, I can't blame the CEO. Here is the CEO's breakdown:

    - Everything is going "web"

    - Our web-based travel partner integrates with Gmail and Microsoft Outlook.

    - Our web-based learning toolkit integrates with standard iCal calendars (Gmail works, Outlook works, DWA does not).

    - I have typeahead addressing in every mail client, except DWA.

    - .Net web development is easy. Domino web development hasn't changed from frames and framesets yet. Most applications are stuck using those 1990 technologies.

    I'm not complaining about the trouble with DWA. I know that Lotus's answer might be "get the full client". But I can tell you, we are losing a battle here, and as IT professionals, it is sometimes best to not fight an aging technology fight. We may begin to look more like the aging COBOL programmer base, who clutched far too long to a less sophisticated technology.

    Any thoughts?

  1. 3  Chris Whisonant http://www.bleedyellow.com/blogs/lotusnut | 6/9/2008 4:09:10 PM

    @1 - agreed!!

    Ed, so who do we need to contact at Apple? iPhone consumers do not buy the device or services from Apple - we buy them from AT&T (or eBay, etc....) We, as iPhone consumers, do not have direct contact with Apple. I understand that some partners do, and I also understand that sometimes the Apple rep will tell the partner to speak to IBM. Who, in turn, tells us to speak with Apple.

    So, do we just all need to go into the nearest Apple store and tell them this? Do we call 1-800-iNotes?

    Re: ActiveSync being deeper? How is this possible? How did IBM let Microsoft and Apple become so buddy-buddy with getting this accomplished? Why couldn't IBM have something on the iPhone at a deeper level? IBM isn't the one represented in all of the Mac commercials as the useless competitor to Apple, yet it's pretty obvious that IBM is the one getting jilted in this whole situation.

    Don't really want to start a flame war here, but this is fairly symptomatic of complaints IBM has had for YEARS regarding the mobile device arena...a day late and a dollar short. And it's not like the iPhone caught anyone by surprise, either.

  1. 4  Chris Whisonant http://www.bleedyellow.com/blogs/lotusnut | 6/9/2008 4:12:02 PM

    @2 - just curious - does Outlook WEB ACCESS work with all of those technologies?? If it doesn't, then there is a fairly obvious flaw in the CEO's reasoning. Comparing the Outlook fat client to DWA is not a proper comparison... ;)

  1. 5  Eric Eskam  | 6/9/2008 4:24:15 PM

    Count me as one of the disappointed. I was hoping for at least a "Stay tuned for something exciting soon"...

    I've already binged my Apple rep and told them that while nice, it's probably a non-starter for now. But if people start kicking out applications on the iPhone (and you know they are going to) and Notes is still a big gaping hole in the iPhone lineup when Exchange is sitting there prominently - well, it's just going to be yet another thing pointing to why we should ditch Domino for the "industry standard". As others have pointed out, the iPhone wasn't exactly a surprise. And you can't tell me that if an organization like IBM thought it was a significant platform, an agreement with Apple couldn't be met.

    Just very disappointing - and I'm getting weary of being disappointed :(

    I'm hoping IBM/Lotus has something up their sleeve - it would be nice. I have to get a phone for work, I held out for today - now I'm not sure what I am going to do. I'll probably go with that other industry standard I loath - Blackberry - because I want wireless sync for my calendar.

  1. 6  Michael Bourak  | 6/9/2008 4:34:22 PM

    @2

    - DWA Lite does type ahead now and "full" dwa should get it soon too

    - DWA 8.5 is extremelly promissing ! Check out the beta ! and don't compare DWA to Outlook but outlook web access...

    - XPages in domino 8.5 is a real revolution in domino web development ! Check it out !

  1. 7  Greyhawk68 http://www.greyhawk68.com | 6/9/2008 5:00:25 PM

    Okay, I'm letting Apple know. You can find out several ways here:

    { Link }

    -Grey

  1. 8  Henry Ferlauto http://www.geniusinside.com | 6/9/2008 5:01:03 PM

    Registering complaints / suggestions through Apple's website will far from suffice. IT departments need to engage Apple's enterprise sales team (yes, they actually have one).

    The "Have Apple Contact Me" web page

    { Link }

    is a good place to start.

    Like any business, when there's enough money at stake, their perspective will change.

  1. 9  Daniel Lieber http://www.iiui.com | 6/9/2008 5:03:25 PM

    Thanks for posting this, Ed. It's a good explanation of where things are for the moment. I appreciate the candor and clear communication of what is being done and is available today and where the known shortcomings are, along with how those are possibly going to be addressed.

    If you could find out a way for us (customers and partners) to properly contact Apple, it would be helpful. They can be a very hard organization to understand for an outsider* such as myself.

  1. 10  Colin Williams  | 6/9/2008 5:31:00 PM

    @3 - You have to ask how many Mac shops run Domino as their IMAP backend...the Mac shop I am familier with runs Exchange. At a guess I'd say that would be a pretty common scenario. If that is indeed the case, iPhone support via ActiveSync just makes sense and would be stupid for Apple to ignore - its so clever it hurts really; all the complex BES style barriers to entry are wiped off the table and it becomes a no brainer for the CEO to turn up with a device and have his tech guru get it running in minutes.

    Need I say that the Mac shop CEO is over the moon that, out of the box, his environment supports his giggly girl desire for iPhone geekyness.

    Sorry Ed, we love you/your passion so don't take this personally; truely the only way to solve this issue is for IBM to license ActiveSync and plug it into Domino. Anything else is going to be sub par (as DWA is currently).

  1. 11  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/9/2008 5:37:38 PM

    I'm not taking any of this personally -- I wrote the blog entry to redirect the e-mails into someplace that the flames don't interrupt my day :-)

  1. 12  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/9/2008 5:44:48 PM

    Looks like Nathan and other have started/signed a petition on this: { Link }

    I've seen five blog entries on the petition but only 21 signatures so far. Hope this isn't an echo chamber...

  1. 13  Jamie Magee http://www.JamieMagee.com | 6/9/2008 5:48:16 PM

    Thanks for the open commentary. And since you mention Sybase iAnywhere over IMAP, I'll presume you don't mind a mention that the Domino servers out there NOT running POP/IMAP can still push mail to iPhones using MartinScott WirelessMail for iPhone.

  1. 14  Jamie Magee http://www.JamieMagee.com | 6/9/2008 6:16:08 PM

    and I just checked... 40% of our last 1200 downloads are from iPhone users with Domino mailboxes, and we get more questions about iPhone compatibility than for any other device platform. Clearly, there's demand for a more robust full sync solution than the SMTP redirection we offer.

  1. 15  Kirk Kuykendall  | 6/9/2008 7:37:53 PM

    Just add my $.02 that WirelessMail works great with the iPhone for those environments where POP/IMAP isn't an option.

  1. 16  Paul Robichaux http://www.robichaux.net/blog | 6/9/2008 8:09:19 PM

    @3: Microsoft will license Exchange ActiveSync to anyone who wants to pay the freight (and that cost is small beans for a company like Apple, much less IBM). Where's the equivalent protocol for Domino? What could Apple have licensed to build Notes/Domino support in to the client? (Assuming they wanted to, which apparently they do not.)

    @4: Outlook Web Access in "reach" mode works a treat on the iPhone. I use it, but not as much as I used to :)

    Now, I've got to get back to writing my iPhone program with the SDK :)

  1. 17  Sacha Sommer  | 6/9/2008 9:01:23 PM

    Yet another opportunity IBM has ignored to promote Lotus Notes/Domino. Even if Apple makes jokes about Microsoft (basically Windows) in their adds.Microsoft gets free advertisement from Apple. And don't forget even if you consider Apple a small player to IBM or Microsoft in numbers their event draws much more attention to everybody around the world. And the message was: iPhone does Exchange - Exchange does iPhone! I assume a lot of people will think that iNotes is not really a contender in this and even if it were, were was it? Did you see it? Has anybody heard the words "Lotus Notes/Domino" at this event? Guess not! I am pretty sure the guys at Redmond were enjoying this day very much! Why is it always the same old story?

  1. 18  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/9/2008 9:03:20 PM

    Sacha, if I knew the answer to that question, I probably would not have written this blog entry.

  1. 19  Mike Sweeney  | 6/9/2008 9:23:53 PM

    Our reps @ (AT&T) as well as friends at apple have been notified and will continue to hear the feed back from us, larger enterprise customer of Lotus Notes/Domino.

  1. 20  Jeff Picco  | 6/9/2008 9:59:35 PM

    Guess what the very large company I work for is doing now... you guessed it. We are doing a Mac trial and now looking in to the iPhone. The question came up about Domino support. We also have a few MS servers being setup in a sandbox that be connected to the devices soon.

    The public perception that IBM doesn't play in this space hurts.

  1. 21  Bob Frank  | 6/9/2008 10:06:08 PM

    In addition to the contact methods above, if you know any developers or your company has sent anyone to Apple's Developer conference this week. *All* of the right people are at WWDC. Ask your people to track them down, get direct personal contact and collect email address.

    Then follow up in 2 weeks. This week all the Apple engineers, product managers, and developer relation folks are so busy its crazy and will barely remember a conversation from a customer about Lotus support, next week they'll all be recuperating. The following week there should be more signs of life, and evidence of customer impact is the most important thing you can communicate.

    Good luck,

    Bob Frank (a Mac programmer - who's not at WWDC this year *sob*)

  1. 22  Lance Spellman  | 6/9/2008 10:07:40 PM

    Sad day, missed opportunity, huge disappointment

  1. 23  Peter Wilson  | 6/9/2008 10:31:02 PM

    I guess Apple's payback since moving from PowerPC to Intel :-(

  1. 24  Kirk Kuykendall  | 6/9/2008 10:50:23 PM

    What's really sad about this is that Lotus was one of the earliest and most loyal customers of NeXT... where's the love Steve?

  1. 25  Bob Congdon http://www.bobcongdon.net/blog | 6/10/2008 12:06:11 AM

    @24: Lotus != IBM, NeXT != Apple. And besides, you're talking about a relationship from the early 90s. None of the Lotus players from those days are still around.

    By the way, did you know that IBM licensed NeXTstep 1.0 back in 1989? It was for the RS 6000. IBM never did anything with it although they loaned us one to port Improv but those plans never went anywhere. We did port Improv to NeXTstep Intel back in 1992. Yeah, the predecessor to OS X ran on Intel 16 years ago. But by then we were focused on Windows and Mac and the Intel port was discarded. And the Mac version of Improv was never completed.

    Back then Jobs frequently perstered Lotus to port Notes to NeXT. But obviously that never happened. And Domino was never ported to OS X either.

    Don't know if anyone else noticed this or not but in addition to Exchange support on the new iPhone, Apple also announced that the next release of OS X (Snow Leopard), { Link } also "includes out-of-the-box support for Microsoft Exchange 2007 built into Mail, Address Book, and iCal. Mac OS X uses the Exchange Web Services protocol to provide access to Exchange Server 2007. Because Exchange is supported on your Mac and iPhone, you’ll be able to use them anywhere with full access to your email, contacts, and calendar."

    No offense, but at least some of us are happy today ;-)

  1. 26  Julian Woodward http://blog.woowar.com | 6/10/2008 1:36:54 AM

    The Lotus roadmap is defined, to a very large degree, by the needs of IBM itself and handful of similarly vast customers.

    (If that weren't the case, we wouldn't be stuck with the ridiculously over-the-top WAS architecture for the Sametime Gateway, for example, and it would just be a Domino server add-in task like 99% of the userbase would prefer it to be.)

    IBM aren't about to start endorsing iphones internally next week, and H**C or P*C aren't either, therefore (the thinking goes) it doesn't really matter yet.

    Once again, the needs and interests of the 80% are ignored in favour of the 20% who shout the loudest.

    Hand on heart, can anybody tell me I'm wrong here?

  1. 27  Alan Bell http://www.dominux.co.uk | 6/10/2008 1:51:50 AM

    step 1 which IBM could do is support RFC 2177 IMAP IDLE. Then you get standards compliant push email to the iPhone. IBM do not have to ask anyone for permission to do this. It is not a technically demanding task (it is a command that does nothing). If there is any motivation whatsoever inside IBM/Lotus to support iPhone and other small devices that want push email then step 1 is IMAP IDLE.

    Business partners can write a mail template and applications that that use iUI or the SDK, developing for the iPhone isn't hard. We can't fix the IMAP task.

  1. 28  Brian Parker  | 6/10/2008 2:25:14 AM

    "Domino Web Access -- now renamed back to iNotes"

    You're kidding. Whatever for?

  1. 29  Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 6/10/2008 3:11:05 AM

    Gotta add my 2c.

    We're in the position where the movers and shakers in our business now think the iPhone is hot, and want to discard their BlackBerries and WMD (Windows of Mobile Destruction) devices. The latter I can understand, the former is insane. (I love my BlackBerry, and develop apps for them)

    However, till the C-Level get Domino on their iPhone, their simple solution will be to finally give in to the huge pressure to ditch Domino and switch to Exchange (which is far less reliable, secure, scalable, etc).

    *This* is where marketing dollars count. Even ads that say 'Lotus Notes is still alive' or having IBM salesguys actually try and sell it, would be a huge leap forward. I *do* remember the days where I could buy Lotus Notes licenses from 'normal' retail software vendors.

    Its gotta be difficult for Ed - having to be head salesguy for a product that doesnt get marketed to SMB/Medium sized business, and *still* convince folks outside our little yellow bubble that the product is relevant, exists.

    Only until the C-Level folks can get iPhone and BlackBerry/Domino parity, will they understand the security aspects of what they're getting into.

    Its another fantastic bit of sharp practice by Redmond - I'm guessing as part of the license deal, they've frozen other mail vendors (well, Domino and Groupwise) off the iPhone platform for a while.

    For an *important* while.

    Sad.

    Me ? I'm off to start developing iPhone apps, and switch my personal mail to dot-mac. Because at a stroke, I can build and sell apps directly to millions of customers for zero marketing budget. Now thats a brilliant move by Apple.

    ---* Bill

  1. 30  Colin Williams  | 6/10/2008 4:56:15 AM

    One thing that worries me; it seems to me that if IBM actually delivers Notes email on the iPhone, it will be accessed via a different client. I hope I'm wrong because anything other than the fully integrated native mail app on that phone will be a joke.

  1. 31  Craig Dalton  | 6/10/2008 6:02:31 AM

    @30 God I hope it's not Eclipse bloatware...

  1. 32  Eric  | 6/10/2008 6:20:04 AM

    So if I install the new client 8.5 on my Mac, it´s not possible to sync with the new iPhone?

    @30 Another reason to license the with Active Sync. Lotus Traveller user interface doesn´t make me excited.

  1. 33  Sean Jennings  | 6/10/2008 6:39:26 AM

    Could this be a strategic decision by Apple?

    IBM has a two horse strategy of pushing;-

    + Linux as an alternative desktop operating-system

    + Eclipse as an operating-system agnostic application-platform

    While Apple's hardware designs are always cutting edge, Apple's greatest asset is OS X. This is what truely differentiates Apple products from other vendors.

    There is a mood for change. Vista has flopped and people are tired of the BSOD and the security patching that makes the Windows platform a chore to keep working. Windows is expensive to license and with the crunch money is tight.

    Apple would love to appear as the 7th Cavarly turning-up on cue to save the day with OS X, but IBM is telling everyone "use applications built on Eclipse and you can use any operating-system you want, including Linux which is free!".

    Apple has built a 'switcher' path from Windows to OS X by moving to Intel and introducing the Boot Camp tool.

    IBM has built a 'switcher' path from Windows to Linux via Eclipse.

    So in battle for Windows-defectors, IBM and Apple are suddenly major competitors....

  1. 34  Rob  | 6/10/2008 7:09:13 AM

    You need third part software to sync mobile devices with Notes/Domino. This makes it expensive to use Notes/Domino for mobile communication.

    Many mobile devices are ready for sync with Exchange without third part software. And now even the iPhone.

    { Link }

  1. 35  Rob Ingram  | 6/10/2008 7:17:37 AM

    @16 I'm not aware that Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to any server vendors, only to device vendors. Are there other examples you have seen?

    @29 - Bill, have you checked out the iPhone enterprise sdk license terms to make sure they allow you to build the apps ythe way you want to and to distribute them as enterprise customers would want them. Worth taking a closer read.

  1. 36  NeilT  | 6/10/2008 7:23:44 AM

    I was just looking at the Zdnet UK coverage of the launch.

    This

    "We've had a beta going. Thirty-five percent of the Fortune 500 has participated in that beta program. The top five banks, top five securities firms, six or seven top airlines, eight out of the top pharmaceuticals, and eight of the 10 top entertainment companies." And what did they want, Steve? "Exchange, push email, calendars, contacts, auto-discovery, global address lookup, remote wipe, all this stuff built in. In addition we've worked with Cisco to build in their VPN services, all sorts of security demanded by the enterprise. Everything they told us they wanted, we built in."

    Caught my eye.

    Now I clearly remember going through the recent ppt you placed on this site for us Ed.

    What I have to ask is:

    Are these customers you highlighted really using Notes/Domino or is Mr Jobs "embellishing"?

    I would like to know as it's an important part of the belief culture we need to keep this product alive.

  1. 37  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/10/2008 7:47:56 AM

    @35: in order for intranet-style proprietary apps to be distributed, developers would sign up to the Enterprise Programme, rather than the standard programme (which is for distribution via the app store), so that sounds OK to me.

    In the UK, the new iPhone will be distributed for FREE to customers signing up for a variety of O2 tariffs (business customers included). Pay-as-you go customers will have to pay for the handset, but of course the price has been slashed. Whichever way you look at it, iPhone market penetration is only going to go up. A lot.

  1. 38  David Vasta http://www.iSeriesAddict.com | 6/10/2008 7:50:56 AM

    You know what is crazy is that a company like IBM does not have anyone who can call Apple and get this all sorted out?

    Why do we the people who consume the product have to work out the details between IBM and Apple, two fairly large companies? IBM has a CEO and Apple has a CEO, and I am sure they have each others numbers?

    I really get frustrated with the idea that the people who want the technology have to do the ground work for the people who get to sell the technology. Don't get me wrong I understand a free market system and I know if we badger Apple they will eventually get this done, but seems like the Microsoft people have again pulled off what IBM/Lotus can't figure out? How can that be?

  1. 39  EMPCIO http://www.emp.com | 6/10/2008 7:54:27 AM

    IBM clearly missed the boat. Almost everyone I know in business new this phone was going to be revolutionary. The Lotus product line is always in catchup mode. It is becoming nearly impossible to continue support of this product.

    As far as the comment in regards to the SDK and Apple and IBM relationship, I am sorry you feel it is our responsibility to do your job. I am a paying customer and expect my vendors to keep ahead of technology. Lotus is downstream trying to catchup with no luck. This is the latest disaster in a series of recent mistakes.

    For my company, if Lotus has no iPhone integration by end of the Q3 08 we will be forced to move to a vendor that does.

  1. 40  Stuart Mcintyre http://blog.collaborationmatters.com | 6/10/2008 8:25:10 AM

    Adding to what Ben (@37) had to say, from the O2 site:

    "iPhone is now free on selected Pay Monthly tariffs*

    *Best of all, the new 8GB iPhone won't cost you a penny on our £45 and £75 tariffs. And it's just £99 on our £35 tariff and new £30 tariff.

    All tariffs include unlimited browsing on your iPhone, unlimited Wi-Fi access, visual voicemail and reduced roaming rates with our International Traveller Service and are subject to a minimum term contract of 18 months."

    Suddenly the main reason why folks stayed away has gone...

  1. 41  Alan Head  | 6/10/2008 8:32:50 AM

    Hang on a mo, are people genuinely considering moving Enterprise mail platforms just because of iPhone? We are in the middle of a credit crunch, where are you going to find the millions of $/£/Euro to fund this? Sure its a disappointment but is it really such an agent for change?

    Granted if you're making the choice about a mail platform then it counts against Notes/Domino but since when was iPhone a viable enterprise class mobile device? The changes announced yesterday don't make it one for sure. Compared to Blackberry its too large, too expensive, too fragile, too insecure, and too gimmicky for CIO's and CFO's to sign off on.

    All that will happen here is what always has happened with mobile devices - tools will be bought and hacks will be made by admins to get the CEO's daughter's dog's latest toy to sync his mail.

  1. 42  Volker Weber http://vowe.et/about | 6/10/2008 8:45:20 AM

    Alan, "since" July 11, 2008.

  1. 43  Eric L http://nfprotein.com/eric | 6/10/2008 8:47:06 AM

    There was an article in our LOCAL paper today mentioning Exchange support. This is disappointing. This could go down in IT history as one of the great marketing blunders. IBM better get their act together or miss a HUGE opportunity.

    MS looks like the multi-platform company now.

    iPhone IS an enterprise device. It has the functions that are needed in the next generation of mobile devices.

  1. 44  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2008 8:47:22 AM

    Prompted by 26, 38, 39 -- here's what I want to see. I want someone who has actually spoken with their Apple representative to comment back here as to what they learned. One customer I spoke with two weeks ago received an answer that was encouraging and consistent with what I've said here and on the other blogs. The rest of you simply wonder why I'm pointing at Apple.

    To be 100% clear, again, this is not the sound of one hand clapping. IBM very much wants to make this happen, and I'm convinced that Apple does, too. It is just a road to travel between point A and point B. That road is about market and technology both.

  1. 45  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/10/2008 8:48:59 AM

    @41 how is "free" equating to too expensive? The tariffs certainly look comparable to me. "Gimmicky"? Come on. "Fragile"? Maybe. "Insecure"? Did you read the full gen on iPhone 3G, specifically around remote management and Cisco VPN? As for CIOs, where do you think some of the drive for using these devices is coming from? Who do you think Apple have been talking to?

  1. 46  Alan Head  | 6/10/2008 9:06:52 AM

    @45 yes, I have. We have a fairly large executive deployment of Blackberry/BES here (150+) plus a 1000+ mobile workforce who have 3G cards for their notebooks. Absolutely zero push for iPhone, its just not seen as a business tool. Clearly that will start to change with 3G and no doubt it will in the same way as it did with Blackberry - toy envy amongst people with the power to make things happen.

    But the main point remains, is anyone really going to change enterprise mail platforms just for integrated iPhone support?

    There is a wider debate that isn't iPhone specific around integration of mail systems with various mobile platforms (is it time to whisper Android yet?)

  1. 47  Christian  | 6/10/2008 9:22:18 AM

    Ed, you wrote, "The SDK doesn't do it, folks. Microsoft's activesync integration is deeper into the device than that." But this sidesteps what is an obvious next question -- did any of the Lotus developers download and develop with the SDK at all?

    If you want to keep your customers from biting, it's time to show your hand and level with us. Start by answering this question: To what extent has the exclusion of Lotus from the iPhone enterprise world been driven by managers' and developers' apathy -- or antipathy -- towards Objective-C? We all know that Lotus and Java go hand in hand, and there's a fair bit of acrimony in the Java community towards Objective-C. There's also only one language to develop with for the iPhone: Objective-C.

    I ask this following the SDK question because it seems like an obvious connection: The Lotus team is stocked full of Java developers; did any of the Lotus team management bother to loose a Lotus developer or three to go grab a MacBook Pro, download the SDK, and plow through Stephen Cochan's "Programming in Objective-C"? Because if the answer to that is "no," which I suspect it is, then the onus for this fiasco is 100% on IBM and the Lotus team, and not Apple, as you're claiming.

    I'm deeply skeptical that there was *any* serious attention paid to the SDK at the Lotus developer level. Why? Because every report I've read from any developer that's touched the iPhone SDK has been nothing short of laudatory. Excitement like makes developers want to create, create, create, and thus far, we've heard of no iPhone application creations from the Lotus team.

    Apart from that, I would echo many of the unhappy comments above, particularly 38 and 39. IBM has completely missed the emergence of a major new computing platform, and even playing catch up at this point feels like a losing strategy.

  1. 48  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2008 9:30:51 AM

    @47 Christian thank you for your insight into the inner workings of IBM.

    We had access to the SDK from the word go. It doesn't allow you to write an application which runs in the background. That is essential for push mail.

    Our developers continue to work with the SDK to make best use of it, but it alone will not solve this challenge.

  1. 49  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 9:33:11 AM

    @46 - "But the main point remains, is anyone really going to change enterprise mail platforms just for integrated iPhone support?"

    Is anyone going to change enterprise mail platforms just for Outlook client support? Of course they are.

    Well, at $199 and 3G support, the iPhone becomes a cheaper enterprise solution than an Outlook client. Why bother with a mail solution on the desktop at all? Just move your entire messaging model to the phone.

    The only thing you'd really lose is attachment sharing via email. And I can think of a half-a-dozen other ways to handle that.

    How many executives that have smart phones even run their desktop email clients anymore?

  1. 50  Jim  | 6/10/2008 9:40:22 AM

    A full court press can't hurt:

    { Link }

  1. 51  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 9:48:57 AM

    @47 - "Because every report I've read from any developer that's touched the iPhone SDK has been nothing short of laudatory. Excitement like makes developers want to create, create, create, and thus far, we've heard of no iPhone application creations from the Lotus team."

    I've downloaded and worked with the SDK. It's pretty weak in terms of integrating with the native services of the phone itself. For example...

    There is great support for playing a movie, but there is no support for capturing an image from the camera.

    There's great support for manipulating audio, but there's no support for placing a phone call.

    There's great support for working with HTTP data, but there's no support at all for fetching an email.

    There's great support for managing the address book, but no support at all for managing the calendar.

    Given that many of the OS level applications have no API at all, there's not really anything that CAN be done without Apple's direct support. Ed points to the lack of a background context for applications, which is a serious barrier, but the truth is that even if you could run something in the background on the iPhone, you still couldn't surface information in the native mail or calendaring features. There's simply no mechanism in the SDK to even set a calendar or mail entry.

    You'd have to write your own client interface from the ground up.

    @27 - Supporting IMAP IDLE wouldn't help (though I agree that Domino should do it anyway.) That keeps a continual network socket open between a client and a server, which is something that Apple has been very specific in saying that they WILL NOT ALLOW. They won't do it because of the implications on battery life. Having a perpetual open connection gets expensive.

    Y'know, Apple has said an awful lot about licensing ActiveSync and their support for Exchange, but have we heard about availability and functionality yet?

  1. 52  Alan Bell http://www.dominux.co.uk | 6/10/2008 10:07:58 AM

    up to this morning I was convinced the iPhone did IMAP IDLE, seems it doesn't. It may well be doing p-IMAP { Link } as mentioned here { Link }

    Personally I don't think the iPhone is a sufficiently Open platform for me. I will be looking at Android and OpenMoko.

  1. 53  Sean Jennings  | 6/10/2008 10:37:35 AM

    @44 I'm puzzled Ed..

    You were astounded when there was only mention of Exchange and not Domino at the original iPhone launch, even though there were IBM Lotus VPs there.

    There were hints that work was going-on in the background and I think we all got the impression that Lotus was working on something, perhaps with the SDK. (Though as we know, Apple have limited it as to what you can do, such as running in the background..)

    Then comes of the iPhone 2 launch and... even closer snuggling-up to Exchange and no mention of Lotus.... not even "a coming in the future".

    I'm sure IBM has people tasked with coming-up with an iPhone solution, so the conclusion seems to be that its Apple that isn't playing ball... if so, why?

  1. 54  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2008 10:42:58 AM

    @53 covering that the best I can in a new blog entry, posting in a few minutes.

  1. 55  Rob Ingram  | 6/10/2008 10:49:04 AM

    @51 - Exactly to the key point here. The present iPhone SDK is still not a serious enterprise dev platform. Their whole mind set still seems to be the consumer. (Unless of course CEO just wants a nice music and movie player and camera in their business phone).

    This issue what people need to get on Apple's case about, assuming Apple truly cares about expanding its business user base. Otherwise Blackberry will still rule the enterprise for some time I feel.

  1. 56  Kerr  | 6/10/2008 11:00:41 AM

    Hopefully the push notification service, supposedly available in September, can be used to provide some relevant functionality without the direct blessing of Apple. Of course, we'll have to see what that entails.

  1. 57  Rob McDonagh http://www.CaptainOblivious.com | 6/10/2008 11:01:09 AM

    Does anyone *know* how Microsoft is able to get around the restriction in the SDK against background services? The reason they're banned is battery life, according to Apple, so it seems odd to me that they would make an exception to that particular item for Exchange. Also, the solution Apple promotes to handle this issue is the use of a 'push' notification to the individual device, rather than a background task on the device. Why isn't that sufficient for our purposes?

    I may be (probably am) entirely wrong about both the problem and its potential solutions, but the point is this: this is a technical group, and if the issues are detailed specifically enough for us to understand them, we will do a lot less whining (not none, of course, that's inconceivable). Can we get a detailed, technical explanation of the problems? Unless, as some have suggested, the problems aren't technical at all, but rather political?

  1. 58  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 11:13:48 AM

    { Link }

  1. 59  Paul Gagnon  | 6/10/2008 11:17:02 AM

    I've been using Traveler on my Q for a couple of weeks, its a keeper, pretty good product for my needs, it works, good value for a great price. Cost me $30 for an ssl cert, already had the phone. Runs on an ESX VM in the datacenter.

  1. 60  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/10/2008 11:19:01 AM

    Re SDK: early days. But I'd rather work with that & have it get more complex over time that start with, oooh say, RAD.

    Re ActiveSync / background apps I'm not sure what's happening there. But as others have pointed out, there are sound power management reasons as to why background processes aren't being permitted in iPhone apps, and I've seen no evidence to suggest that the Exchange stuff goes against this.

  1. 61  Kerr  | 6/10/2008 11:27:40 AM

    @57, 60. My guess is that the push notification service is already there, just not surfaced in the generally available SDK. If it works the way I think it would, then apps would register for notifications and when a relevant notification came in, then they would be woken up. So the app doesn't run in the background, but can be woken when required. Obviously that requires Apple to have a gateway that notifications to be pushed to from the server side.

  1. 62  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 11:32:56 AM

    @55 - Rob, careful not to draw the wrong conclusion from my remarks about the SDK. The kit is insufficient to create what's needed, but the fact remains that MSFT negotiated their way to lower level access, and IBM didn't.

  1. 63  Bill Buchan http://www.billbuchan.com | 6/10/2008 12:43:01 PM

    Background apps certainly are out, but they have developed a 'Push' mechanism that will, on certain events (such as mail being received) waken up your app.

    They claim its more efficient than the RIM SDK 'background' apps - that has yet to be confirmed.

    However, if what they say is correct, you can have a 'background-like' push model to your app.

    Perhaps in this early version, its not fully featured enough. But we know it'll get better.

    Arguably, the RIM Java exposure is slightly better (access to native mail, contacts, encrypted secure memory, etc), but thats taken several years to get to this stage.

    The Apple SDK arguably allows you to build beautiful, simple applications, easily.

    I think if I were in RIM's shoes, I'd be exposing a lot of what was considered 'internal' in order to placate all the BlackBerry developers out there...

    I think the last point is: Would you switch mail platform just for iPhone Support ?

    No, of course not. But if there is a bunch of reasons being driven through for change, this is a very visible "straw that broke the camels' back" issue that might turn some sites around. Especially if C-Level use it as an excuse to demonstrate IBM strategy.

    Ed, on this very rare occasion, I might disagree with you and tell you its time for IBM to actually come to the plate with something to demonstrate or at least hang a strategy upon. After all, you are the best guy at talking about Notes roadmap, and the other sides lack of roadmap.

    Looks like they just built another road under IBM's feet overnight.

    ---* Bill

  1. 64  Eric Eskam  | 6/10/2008 12:46:07 PM

    @46 "But the main point remains, is anyone really going to change enterprise mail platforms just for integrated iPhone support?"

    Not "just" for integrated iPhone support, but it could be the final straw in a long things of support that Exchange has that Notes doesn't. There isn't exactly a positive trend of Notes supporting third party devices, or third party devices supporting Notes. Frankly, I don't care who's fault it is (and neither do my managers). The fact is, compared to Exchange support, Notes is weak. It's a serious deficiency. IBM is the one perceived to be deficient, so IBM needs to be taking the lead to correct the deficiency. I can't get my folks to go badger IBM/Apple for more Notes support, we are too busy trying to fend off Exchange - which frankly we are loosing that argument on because of stuff like this. :(

    What's really frustrating is I "get it". I understand folks like Ed's argument that Notes is so much more then email. I agree! The problem is, email is THE killer application. It's what EVERYONE uses. The fact that it took IBM more then 10 years [ack- can't believe it's been that long since I upgrade our V3 servers] with Notes 8 to FINALLY get a modern email experience is what's really sad - never mind third party support for things like the iPhone, cell phones in general (as someone else pointed out, Windows Mobile smartphones are free with Exchange, but have to go third party with Notes?!?), business card scanners, photo copier integration, vertical applications, etc. I routinely can't even get to the discussions about the power of Notes because people can't get past the Mail interface, followed by the lack of third party support. Thank god BlackBerry has good support or Notes would be bounced out so fast it isn't even funny.

    As a platform, I love Notes. I love the power, scalability, reliability, fault-tolerance, scaling. The problem is there are so many other distractions from the "little things" that the really solid stuff tends to get lost in the noise. THAT'S my frustration, and why I'm just about to give up and go with the flow. I'm just worn out - and that's really sad because with 8 I see the platform finally starting to shed some of it's worst baggage from a usability perspective :(

  1. 65  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 12:48:22 PM

    "but they have developed a 'Push' mechanism that will, on certain events (such as mail being received) waken up your app."

    Bill, I've read the SDK. I don't see an ability to register an app listener to some kind of mail event. Or, indeed, ANY platform events. Where is that?

  1. 66  Eric Eskam  | 6/10/2008 1:01:03 PM

    @62 "the fact remains that MSFT negotiated their way to lower level access, and IBM didn't"

    Actually, MS had a protocol that apple licensed, and then used to tie the native iPhone apps (Mail, Calendar, Address book) into to the Exchange server. I keep seeing comments in there that imply that MS did the iPhone integration - nothing in Apples comments ever hinted at this. They licensed the protocol from MS and implemented it themselves.

    Lotus has had such a confused mobile message for so long, I'm going to show my ignorance - is there an equivalent to ActiveSync for Domino? Is there a protocol for Apple to license and integrate into the iPhone? If not, I would say that's the core issue. I don't want (at least for mail) the Notes client for my iPhone, I want integration with the native Apps. IMAP is fine for me for mail (push, while nice, isn't that necessary to me) but what I'm really missing is wireless access for my Calendar. Sadly, Calendar standards are a little immature compared to mail :( And contacts - vCard is also weak when it comes to tasks like synchronization.

  1. 67  Eric Eskam  | 6/10/2008 1:03:28 PM

    @65 "Bill, I've read the SDK. I don't see an ability to register an app listener to some kind of mail event. Or, indeed, ANY platform events. Where is that?"

    It's an updated to the SDK that was announced this week at the WWDC - will be available in September. Read through any of the keynote notes and you will see the details they have for it.

  1. 68  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/10/2008 1:57:26 PM

    Apple is touting their new "MobileMe" service as "Exchange for the rest of us". I don't believe that IBM has anything to replace the "Exchange" in that sentence with. There is no match for ActiveSync in IBM's arsenal. Period. If there were, I'm sure that Apple would have been more than happy to license it and include in their iPhone corporate strategy given that it would cover the other 40% of the enterprise.

    This isn't a case of IBM failing to or being unable to leverage the iPhone SDK. This is a case of IBM being out-innovated in the messaging space by Microsoft. Honestly, why would IBM need to build a completely separate messaging app for the iPhone when they simply could have licensed their own native Domino push technology if it were to exist? Furthermore, why would customers want a separate mail application on their iPhone?

  1. 69  Eric Eskam  | 6/10/2008 2:12:54 PM

    @68 "This isn't a case of IBM failing to or being unable to leverage the iPhone SDK. This is a case of IBM being out-innovated in the messaging space by Microsoft. Honestly, why would IBM need to build a completely separate messaging app for the iPhone when they simply could have licensed their own native Domino push technology if it were to exist? Furthermore, why would customers want a separate mail application on their iPhone?"

    Exactly, Adam.

  1. 70  Chris Whisonant http://www.bleedyellow.com/blogs/lotusnut | 6/10/2008 2:23:17 PM

    iPhone Central just released a good article about background processes: { Link }

  1. 71  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 2:33:07 PM

    "It's an updated to the SDK that was announced this week at the WWDC - will be available in September. Read through any of the keynote notes and you will see the details they have for it."

    Eric, I read through the keynotes. What I see is “unified push notification" which requires that you broker through Apple's servers. Which means all the same headaches that Blackberry faces now.

  1. 72  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/10/2008 2:46:45 PM

    @71 You are leveraging a constant IP connection to all iPhones provided by Apple. You can use this connection to push a variety of communications or events to the device. You really are limited by your own imagination here in regards to what services you can push through this channel. Apple is using it to push contacts, mail, bookmarks and calendaring.

  1. 73  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/10/2008 2:59:47 PM

    @72 - But it's NOT a constant IP connection. It might seem like one, but Apple was pretty specific about it NOT working like ActiveSync does.

    It is cool that you'll be able to treat it that way -- don't get me wrong. But there's nothing clear about what this will do and how it will work just yet, other than Apple saying "we won't keep a network port open all the time."

    And frankly, why should they? I can initiate a conversation with any device on a cellular network from my desk, and the OS on that device understands what's initiated. It's called a phone call. Once you wake up the device, everything can easily be driven by device requests.

  1. 74  Bill Buchan http://www.billbuchan.com | 6/10/2008 5:00:28 PM

    Nathan - sorry to take so long to get back - others have answered the question.

    Another thought on this. It doesnt have to work well at the start. In fact, it doesnt have to work at all. Just the *promise* of this on the roadmap (Something MS used to do when they did roadmaps) is enough to act as a disruptive technology in the market.

    No argument - RIM know how to squeeze the last ounce/joule of life out of the batteries on their BlackBerries and Apple is the new kid on the block in some respects - but Apple are wiping the floor in terms of look+feel (something that Notes has recently embraced) and certainly has the 'wow' factor that we know the C-Level folks respond to.

    Is it important ? Perhaps.

    Does it affect us ? Certainly.

    Are we all going to get iPhones ? Unlikely.

    Is the threat of iPhone enough to cause us headaches as we trail behind MS in this respect ? Absolutely.

    ---* Bill

  1. 75  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/10/2008 5:55:13 PM

    @73 - I've probably misunderstood this. Apple said yesterday that this would be a persistent connection to the devices so I just assumed that they meant constant. I feel like this conversation differs from a "phone call" in that it's using a framework that has been built specifically for iPhone developers to use to get messages directly to their applications. It's more of a direct connection to their applications to communicate in a very specific manner. It shouldn't be overly simplified.

  1. 76  Jeff Miller http://jeff.miller.name | 6/10/2008 7:02:48 PM

    Let's look at history. Before IBM bought Lotus, there was only one serious groupware game in town, and that was Lotus Notes. Exchange came from behind and never looked back. Lotus almost single handedly killed the Linux desktop inside IBM by refusing to ship a Linux Notes client until waaaaaaaay too late. Yeah, yeah, XOverOffice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. NOT! (Could have made Linux desktop success a self-fulfilling prophecy.) Now, apparently, Lotus is almost singlehandedly killing Notes' mobile aspirations. I am very disappointed. Evidently the iPhone is just not important enough. NOT!!!!!

  1. 77  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2008 8:06:16 PM

    @76 Notes would have been dead without IBM. And you really think the Linux client ship date mattered in the grand scheme of what exactly? Please stay relevant to the topic, kthx.

  1. 78  Eric Eskam  | 6/10/2008 10:07:35 PM

    @35"@16 I'm not aware that Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to any server vendors, only to device vendors. Are there other examples you have seen?"

    Rob - Apple is using it in their server and desktop OS as well as the iPhone. Talk about irony!

  1. 79  Daniel from Germany  | 6/11/2008 12:27:37 AM

    I'm the CTO/CIO of a midrage logistics company in Germany. Es have just bought 500 Notes Express licenses and installed Notes and Domino for our company - coming from MS Exchange and other mail systems.

    I found the Lotus Traveler (for Windows Mobile) extremly simple and useful. And I don't think, that it can be so difficult, to write an iPhone client for that service, because it's only a SyncML server.

    So go on someone - there's a lot of money to make on the AppStore. As long as IBM does not provide something like that.

  1. 80  Bob Balaban http://www.bobzblog.com | 6/11/2008 2:52:58 AM

    iPhone/shmyPhone, meh. Get a Blackberry and go back to work.

  1. 81  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/11/2008 6:57:12 AM

    @79 - Daniel, that's exactly correct. Traveler is just a SyncML server under the skin. You can see what that entails right here: { Link }

    So what is Server ActiveSync under it's skin? WebDAV.

    @80 - Nice to see the IBM arrogance about adapting to cutting edge technology survived your departure from the Westford campus, Bob. :-/

  1. 82  bob balaban http://www.bobzblog.com | 6/11/2008 7:31:58 AM

    @81 - Woke up with a high setting on the snark-o-meter, Nathan? :-) The fact is, I've always been a late adopter, and imHo the iphone just isn't worth the expense or the hassle.

    Hey, i'm still waiting for Web 2.01 (the MR)

  1. 83  David Vasta http://www.iSeriesAddict.com | 6/11/2008 7:53:21 AM

    @77 - Ed - I think he (Jeff) is on topic Ed, the point is over and over IBM/Lotus seems late with many products. In 2003 IBM announced by 2006 over 90% of the internal Desktops at IBM would be running Linux and I always wondered HOW? Since there was no Lotus Notes for Linux, we all thought you all had an ace up your sleeve? But you didn't!

    The same thing with the iPhone/Mobile solution, by what you were talking at LS2008 we all figured there was another "SURE THING" and yet this week we have learned the same hard fact again. Lotus continues to miss the proverbial "BOAT". Now weather that is Apples doing or IBM doing it does not matter, what matters is what is the next move?

    where do we go from here. While I do think the iPhone at this point is a silly phone, it's over priced and has some short comings, the one thing it does have is traction and the devout following of millions of Mac Addicts! That is by far more important to team up, Mac Addicts with Lotus Addicts. You can almost smell the sappy love for all that technology!

  1. 84  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/11/2008 7:59:06 AM

    @83 what was announced at Lotusphere 2008 -is- a sure thing, it's called Domino Web Access (or now/again iNotes) "ultralite" mode. That is what was announced and that is what will be delivered next quarter.

    I have no idea where IBM would ever have said that 90% of our internal desktops would be Linux. I know there was a target for all of software group, but it didn't happen. Ironically, I now see IBMers opting for Macs as often as Linux.

  1. 85  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/11/2008 8:21:30 AM

    @83 "You can almost smell the sappy love for all that technology!"

    How offensive :-p

    Actually, on a more serious note, I think you'll find that iPhone adoption has been driven by more than just "Mac addicts" in the same way that iPod sales go way beyond the Mac faithful.

    BTW, why do you say the iPhone is "silly"? Looks OK to me. The gen 1 was indeed pretty expensive, but isn't that always the way with these things? The iPhone 3G pricing looks pretty healthy to me.

  1. 86  Kevin http://www.theglobalmind.com | 6/11/2008 8:48:38 AM

    Look the reality is that somehow or another MSFT got themselves in tight enought with Apple to get the Exchange function embedded in there. IBM did not get this type of consideration.

    Honestly whether the SDK was there or whether or not, or whether or not Apple keeps a lid on things.

    IBM apparently wants the relationship but clearly might not have wanted it bad enough to make this happen ahead of Exchange.

    So once again Exchange gets top billing and Lotus is an also-ran whenever support reveals itself.

    There's simply no defense for this, things should have been attacked sooner and faster to thwart MSFT in this regard. It wasn't done, so we have what we have.

  1. 87  Paul Robichaux http://www.robichaux.net/blog | 6/11/2008 9:03:35 AM

    @35: What does that have to do with anything? MS has their own server-side sync protocol, which device makers can license. My question was whether IBM has an equivalent server-side sync protocol that device makers can license. I'll assume the answer is "no".

    @61: Apple's push notification service AIUI is a service that they offer to aggregate and push notifications. You have to host a service that gathers notifications for your app, then push them to Apple, which aggregates them and pushes them to an individual device.

    @78: actually, Apple is currently using DAV (sort of) for Mail.app and iCal. They will be shipping Exchange Web Services integration in Mail.app, iCal, and Address Book in the next major OS release ("Snow Leopard").

  1. 88  Anders  | 6/11/2008 9:21:08 AM

    Mail is not the problem... Calendar & Contacts against Lotus Notes over-the-air is what i want and no, i don't want to have to go through an Outlook client...

  1. 89  Dag Kvello  | 6/11/2008 10:41:42 AM

    My god, I thought I was a wimpering, whining geek when I pointed out that Traveler didn't support THE (70% world market) biggest Mobile OS, Symbian S60, but WinCE/WinMob only.

    iPhone isn't even a blip on the charts and it won't be bigger in the Enterprise Mobile market than Apple is in the PC/Server market.

    It's the freaking "Tamagochi" of phones, "Everybody" wants one, "Everybody" needs one and everybody ditches it when the fad is over.

    Oh, and 3G is so yester-millenium. We're doing 4G here up North (or 3.5 as my phone calls it). It runs all the back-ground tasks You'd ever need and it still has battery-life.

    Get an iLife folks.

  1. 90  Deleted  | 6/11/2008 11:38:47 AM

    Deleted - No anonymous comments allowed, not even....actually, especially from IBMers.

  1. 91  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/11/2008 11:49:11 AM

    @89 - I think Bill Gates made a similar remark about the iPod back in 2004. There have been almost 150 million iPods sold since then. In less than a year's time, iPhone has managed to take 8% of the global smart phone market. This as the device has only been available in a handful of countries. Also, remember that they've been sold out completely for almost 2 months now. By the end of July, iPhone will be available in 72 countries. You can imagine what that will do for their global market share.

    Over 35% of the Fortune 500 has signed up for the iPhone enterprise pilot program and are gushing about their experience. If you honestly think that iPhone will not be a serious player in the enterprise then you truly have no vision.

  1. 92  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/11/2008 11:54:07 AM

    @84 - I would like to point out that you can test drive the iNotes "ultralight" offering over at Greenhouse. It's a fantastic job and I'd be more than happy to have it as an option at my company.

  1. 93  Eric Eskam  | 6/11/2008 12:00:50 PM

    @81"So what is Server ActiveSync under it's skin? WebDAV."

    But the point is, Nathan, MS has a specification of how that WebDAV is used, and something listening on the Exchange server to communticate. Just like HTTPS, WebDAV is just a transport protocol. It's how you implement it that matters. So far, no one has been able to point me to the Lotus equivalent.

    Hence, we have Exchange support for the iPhone native apps, and no support for Notes. Apple can't support something that doesn't exist.

    And while Traveler is nice for Windows Mobile, that's not what I would really like for the iPhone - I would like to use the native apps for mail and calendaring. As others have pointed out, why would I want two mail clients on my phone?

    Someone else mentioned it above and I'll bring it up again - why IBM would cede this control to someone like RIM with the blackberry just boggles my mind. Here is a chance for Lotus to cut out the middle man. If we were using Exchange, we wouldn't be paying for expensive BB enterprise servers or BB airtime - we would just be syncing our Windows Mobile devices, via ActiveSync, directly to our Exchange servers. Don't think this isn't yet another re-occurring issue that comes up whenever the future of our messaging system is discussed :(

    @86"Look the reality is that somehow or another MSFT got themselves in tight enought with Apple to get the Exchange function embedded in there. IBM did not get this type of consideration."

    Sigh - it's nothing sinister. Apple's enterprise customers told them "hey, we want this thing to work with our mail system".

    Microsoft has a protocol and a framework, Apple licensed it, and plugged the iPhone into it. A business transaction - that's it.

    Notice that Apple did the work, not MS. The reason Apple didn't do the same for Domino is (until someone can show me otherwise) *such a protocol like Activesync doesn't exist for Domino*.

    That's really it, in a nutshell. Pretty simple, actually! If I'm mistaken, I would love for someone to provide a different perspective, but near as I can tell this is where we are - the ball is in IBM's court to provide Apple something to plug into.

    And Apple is using ActiveSync for more then just the iPhone - they are building it into OS X 10.6:

    { Link }

    A protocol that Apple could use to support the native Mail, Calendar and Address Book to talk to Domino servers would be very cool (think Lotus Domino Access for Microsoft Outlook support) - so for those who aren't interested in the iPhone, this would have interest for more then just iPhone users too.

    @89"iPhone isn't even a blip on the charts and it won't be bigger in the Enterprise Mobile market than Apple is in the PC/Server market."

    Yup, and there is no way Apple will meet their 10 million sales goal either <roll>

    Hey, keep you head in the sand - at least it's snug and secure down there. We'll check back in a year and see how relevant your prognostication is. This isn't just some shiny trinket being driven by sales guys, Apple has a compelling story to tell: A reasonably priced device (starts at $199 now) that has lots of CPU and graphics power, rich functionality exposed through an extensive SDK... It's a compelling platform. Is it perfect? Heck no - but plenty of people - including developers - are excited about it. So I wouldn't just go and write it off. And while Apple may have a fraction of the overall PC market, the fraction they do have is significant - just look at their market cap compared to, say Dell. They are 2/3's the size of Microsoft - with their "blip" of a market share. Not bad...

  1. 94  Dag Kvello  | 6/11/2008 12:07:27 PM

    @91 "You don't need eyes to have vision".

    I'm pretty sure that iPhone will never be a major player long-term.

    You'll find most iPhones on eBay, QXL etc. People can't wait to get rid of them, just like most iPods that are laying around in drawers (I have several that I have converted to 8BG USB disks).

  1. 95  Deleted  | 6/11/2008 12:07:34 PM

    Deleted.

    IBMer - I know who you are. Sign your name to the comment or don't leave it.

  1. 96  Dag Kvello  | 6/11/2008 12:18:37 PM

    @93 10 Million World Wide !!! ??? wohooo. We have more phones than that in my tiny country of 4.5 million.

    You can't go wrong if the expectations are low enough.

    Nokia alone has sold more than 1 Billion phones, and more than 100 Million in one Quarter alone "{ Link } and that's only Nokia's S40/S60 sales.

    That would make iPhone a tiny, tiny blip.

    I know the US Market hasn't exactly been spoiled with good phones, but iPhone is just a nice try, but its already three years behind on technology and services and its not exactly gaining.

    So far it shows all the signs of a one-hit-wonder. It's going to take a he*l of a lot more to actually make a den't in Symbian's armour.

  1. 97  Paul Robichaux http://www.robichaux.net/blog | 6/11/2008 12:37:50 PM

    @51: actually, at least two of the things you want to do *are* supported in the SDK. For example, to make a phone call, you use UIApplication openURL: and pass a "tel:" URL. Works like a charm. Same with taking pictures. My point is that there may well be ways to do the others as well.

  1. 98  Marco Foellmer http://ebf.de | 6/11/2008 12:45:28 PM

    Just a hello from WWDC08. I was now talking to more than 20 Apple developers. My impression is that Apple is NOT AWARE about Lotus Notes Customers, Partner, Developers. For this reason Apple advised me to open a bugreport to adress this new feature request to support Lotus Notes.

    Please check this site and open a new feature request:

    { Link }

    cheers marco

  1. 99  Eric Eskam  | 6/11/2008 12:48:38 PM

    @94"I'm pretty sure that iPhone will never be a major player long-term."

    Your in the minority - again we'll come back in a year and see who is right...

    @96"10 Million World Wide !!! ??? wohooo. We have more phones than that in my tiny country of 4.5 million."

    What percentage of those are smartphones? Yeah, there are tons of cheap no-margin phones out there - big whoop. Guess what - they probably can't get email/calendar/contacts from Notes either. Complete red herring. Also Apple never said they wanted to dominate all Cell phones - they don't have to. That's YOUR unrealistic expectation, not theirs.

    Also, the iPhone has only been one model out for just at a year, not subsidized, with limited countries and limited carriers (esp. here in the US). If you factor all that in, they did amazingly well. Now they are quadrupling the number of markets they will be in, releasing a 3G version that is subsidized with a much lower price and encouraging third party development. They are just getting started - far from peaking.

    Calling it a one hit wonder is way premature. But hey, whatever makes you feel good. Symbian doesn't have the whole ecosystem - soup to nuts, hardware, software, app delivery mechanism. And don't forget the user experience - that's what attracts people, not just "ooh, it's Apple". It worked for the iPod and made it the overwhelmingly dominate portable music player, and Apple looks primed to do the same with the iPhone.

    We could go back and forth on this and not change each others mind, so I'm done with this topic. As they say, time will which way it goes, but I have no doubt Apple will execute and become a major player. That's based on what they have done in such a short time already, not based on some wish, irrational hate (or like) for a company or religious debate.

  1. 100  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/11/2008 12:48:39 PM

    I don't think the SDK is an issue at this point unless they are talking about doing a Sametime app. We don't want a separate "Notes" app on the iPhone. We want mail.app, iCal and Address Book integration. IBM simply needs to engineer a service that Apple can leverage.

  1. 101  Dag Kvello  | 6/11/2008 12:56:49 PM

    @99 People don't buy cheap no-margin phones in Norway, or actually many do, but thats only as a third phone to use when You're like to loose it. I have a phone (albeit thats a S60 phone as well) that I use when I'm in the Slopes, on the town, at the beach etc. A phone I don't care if I loose.

    Actually most Nokia phones are S60 here, and they shipped about 80 million S60 phones in 2007. The cheap phones don't sell that much.

    P.S. Considering the Symbian Marketshare I would say i'm part of the overwhelming majority, not the minority.

    Anyways, We'll see in a year and I don't mind buying a couple of beers if i'm wrong.

  1. 102  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/11/2008 1:06:51 PM

    "I'm pretty sure that iPhone will never be a major player long-term."

    Oh that's a good one.

  1. 103  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/11/2008 3:15:41 PM

    I think that instead of spending so much energy fretting over Domino PIM support on the iPhone, IBM would be better served to focus on ways to leverage the iPhone platform to expand upon their social software initiative. I believe it's safe to say that IBM is by far the industry leader in enterprise social software. They truly seem to "get it" when it comes to doing software that facilitates organic collaboration. With Connections, we now have a unified spot on our intranet where we can all go to consume and contribute to the corporate dialogue. In many ways, Connections is a better way to communicate than email. Really, there is no reason why IBM doesn't somehow fold messaging into Connections. Integrate the Inbox with connections much like it's done on Facebook.

    I personally think that email is yesterday's message. Look at the way kids communicate today - mostly via SMS and social networking messages. This isn't a fad, it's a paradigm shift. People are gravitating towards messaging mediums that either allow them to communicate instantly or within a contextual dialogue. More and more, the inbox feels like an isolating and inconvenient experience. Social networks allow us to communicate within the context of each other's interests, activities and relationships. This could easily be translated to the enterprise where social software like Connections allows us to communicate within the context our collective knowledge, completely aware of each other. Because we are now able to sense each other's capabilities and interests with ease, doesn't it make sense to do our messaging in this same space? In the same breath, shouldn't calendaring events be incorporated as well?

    So taking this same thinking off-deck, why not re-think the concept of corporate mobile messaging in this same context? Why not use the iPhone SDK to build a super-intuitive, location-aware corporate social software app not unlike what Loopt has done? Imagine being able to access and edit your profile, contribute to your communities and blogs, check in and participate in activities or do some quick research using dogear using a speedy native iPhone app and that breathtaking interface?

    Sure you could do this via a web app but imagine the possibilities of being able to integrate with the maps and GPS to pinpoint your location and show you the locations of your other team members via Connections? Wouldn't it be great to be able to update your Connections blog using iPhone's native text editor like TypePad demonstrated on Monday? How about camera integration in the same context? Leverage the notification system to send activity status updates?

    Most importantly, if we've taken the inbox into the social network, why would we need to bother with Domino integration? All of our events, contacts and messaging would be handled via this Connections mobile app.

  1. 104  Chris Whisonant http://www.bleedyellow.com/blogs/lotusnut | 6/11/2008 4:03:08 PM

    @98 - Marco, I find that VERY hard to believe. Perhaps the "developers" have no clue about the desire for Lotus support, but if what Ed said in the main post is correct (and I believe 100% that it is):

    "Apple knows that we are interested. Lotus has people at WWDC and talking to Apple regularly."

    Then I find it even harder to believe that the folks at Apple are clueless about the mail platform in use by 40%+ corporate mail users. Perhaps the developers were told that there was only interest in Exchange and then they developed what they were told. I just can't find myself believing that Apple was clueless about this. I think that MS was able to get in good with Apple somehow and get this done...

    The more I see coming out about this, I'm not sure that IBM could have done anything to make this (PIM sync and push mail) happen. Unfortuately, it appears that Apple only wanted this to work with Exchange. Or, as others have pointed out, there just wasn't really any type of groundwork in place for Apple to leverage like they could ActiveSync...

  1. 105  David Vasta http://www.iSeriesAddict.com | 6/11/2008 4:16:34 PM

    Ed,

    I think you have a few things mixed up.

    1. You (ED) know the facts and all the news in detail. You get tons of other information from inside Lotus, and to this day I don't know how you keep it all in the right place in your brain. I would have messed it all up years ago. Congrates to you. I really think that is a feat of will power and intelligence!

    2. You are taking these comments entirely to close to the heart. I have made it a point to come here and read your blog because I believe you are in fact the single most passionate person about Lotus on the face of the earth. I beg anyone to argue against that. But you have to bring it down a notch. You seem to fired up about this and really while it is important, it's not that important.

    So Steve Jobs and his crack staff of marketing people left out the largest mail systems again when they talked about corporate enterprise mail. I agree that is just poor, but it makes Apple and Steve looks like the angry, take my GIJoe toys home spoiled brats they are. In the same breath I own 6 Mac, 1 Airport, and 3 iPods, I think what APPLE did was wrong.

    Is it revenge for the G5 chip, I think not, it is Steve again making another misstep like they did some 15 years ago while trying to get into the enterprise, yes.

    I would do this if I were the King of the Lotus Country. Do everything I can to get my product on the iPhone without the help of Apple, of course help from them would be better, but it's been done. Look at the Android kit from GOOGLE and start working with it. It's all free and Google knows that if you build it they will come always works, plus I happen to think Google is a good place with tons of smart people who don't let emotions like the G5 and other stuff get in the way of doing what is right for the consumer!

    What is important right now to all of us or maybe just me?

    Lotus 8 and 8.5

    Lotus on Linux

    Lotus on Mac

    Improvements to the Admin and Designer client so the people like me and others can give our user the best environment to work in.

    Right now with Lotus 8.01 out you guys are on top of your game. I think for once in a long time the world is seeing Lotus for what it is, a power house of applications, mail and collaboration! Let's not fuss over a little milk on the old black turtle neck and get onto doing what we all seem to do best, working hard at supporting the platform we know as LOTUS!

  1. 106  Adam Burrell http://itwouldbesocoolif.blogspot.com | 6/11/2008 4:59:05 PM

    @105 - That crack staff of marketing people have in a matter of 5 years or so built Apple into one of the brightest brands in the world. Imagine where Lotus might be today had IBM provided them with the same effort during the initial Exchange onslaught? IBM has definitely stepped up their game in recent years but they are digging out of a serious mindshare hole. Most people hear Lotus Notes and immediately think of some far off, painful encounter with 4.6. Apple's done a tremendous job in completely wiping the pre-Jobs 2.0 era of Apple from the world's collective memory. Can IBM do the same for Lotus software?

    Also keep in mind that this may be a business decision made on Apple's part because they are totally happy to have the %50+ of the corporate market that Exchange gives them and don't really want to muddy their OS code with multiple frameworks. Maybe they were looking for a particular solution with a checklist of features and ActiveSync was able to meet all of the requirements.

    Yes it's frustrating to be left out now but maybe this will help kick IBM's innovation machine into high gear and they can engineer a nice solution down the road that will not only bring us native iPhone support but also free us from RIM and open up our environments to an assortment of devices.

    In the meantime, IBM should think of some creative ways to get some of their latest collaborative concepts onto the iPhone platform using the SDK. Like it or not, this new platform is going to change computing forever in the same way that Macintosh did. Apple is steadily refining their desktop OS and laying the groundwork for a new class of OS that is based on much of the tech that you see in iPhone now. It would be a real shame to see IBM completely left out of the game in 5 to 10 years when things really start to change.

  1. 107  Kevin  | 6/12/2008 12:36:49 PM

    @93 - Eric, sigh if you like I never said it was sinister in nature.

    Fact is that MSFT came to the table with something and got some major consideration in response. IBM didn't.

    If IBM can come to the table with something like AS for Apple to license then more power to them. This doesn't change the fact that IBM Lotus will be thought of as the also-ran in this and that once again they're following MSFT instead of leading.

    That's public perception, and that's what matters ultimately.

  1. 108  Kevin Mort http://www.theglobalmind.com | 6/12/2008 12:48:10 PM

    @105 - David, I agree however, we do risk being a bit overconfident.

    I enjoy reading the items such on Connections, where it trounces SharePoint. Wonderful.

    However, (and being an iGuy you know this well) that doesn't take the sting out of the message of Exchange support being announced loud & clear. This isn't how we build mindshare, and that's really the issue at the moment.

    I agree there are lots of wonderful things happening with the Lotus portfolio, we just need to build that awareness up. We'll always have this kind of debate and that's a great thing.

  1. 109  David  | 6/12/2008 9:56:26 PM

    Thanks for the explanation. However, from the consumer/business client side, it appears different (I'm not arguing what the facts are, just the perception). From the perception perspective, Microsoft saw Blackberry being successful, and did two things, (1)they worked with RIM so it would work with Exchange, but then (2) they also said to themselves, "there are a lot of other devices out there (Palm, their own Windows Mobile devices, Nokia, etc)" and they said to themselves, "lets make ActiveSync and support it for Windows Mobile, but also make it easy for other mobile device OS's to hook into our infrastructure".

    So with iPhone, it appears that Apple is just accepting the hand that Microsoft was offering (I'm sure for a price) and choosing to integrate it. However, there hasn't been any evidence (at least not well marketed) of Lotus/IBM doing the same - offering a 'hand' through a proven product. What is IBM's version of ActiveSync that Apple, Palm, Nokia or even Microsoft could integrate into their OS's? So why wouldn't Apple go with the known entity rather than the company that comes to them with the offer to blaze a new trail (with all the costs associated with it)?

    Anyway, that is just the perception. I do hope that Lotus creates a branded technology that offers connectivity and that apple (and other device makers) take them up on integrating it. It would be even better if it was submitted as an open standard (although wouldn't want that to slow down the offering of a Lotus tech).

  1. 110  Jim Bernardo  | 6/23/2008 12:28:07 AM

    Wow...403 signatures on the petition after 3 weeks...does sound a bit like an echo chamber, doesn't it?

    Ed, why not have IBM write something like ActiveSynch, instead of waiting for someone else to do it? You know, be an innovator, not an imitator.

    Sorry, couldn't resist...

  1. 111  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/23/2008 12:34:04 AM

    > Sorry, couldn't resist...

    Hmm, but maybe you should have.

    Innovation?

    Glass houses? Stones?

    BTW, *your product* is called "ActiveSync" -- there's no trailing "h".

  1. 112  Jim Bernardo  | 6/23/2008 9:39:38 PM

    @111, thanks for the correction, Ben...it was late...I was tired :)

    Glass houses? Hmmm...interesting perspective...

  1. 113  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/24/2008 5:27:55 AM

    Jim, re glass houses, I was picking on this statement: "You know, be an innovator, not an imitator". And as an MS person, I'm sure you know why; it's not such an interesting perspective ;o)