Review of TivoToGo
February 10 2005
It took a few weeks for TiVo to update the software release on my box to support TivoToGo. Now that it's done, I've been able to partake in the portable TiVo experience. Mike Lazar and I have been comparing notes, since he was pretty active in last month's initial TiVoToGo discussion here.
True to TiVo's form, the software is very easy to use. The codec problem I described when first installing TiVo's software seems to have magically repaired itself -- I never ended up having to buy a codec. Selecting programs to download is straightforward and rather binary. Video playback is done through Windows Media Player; TiVo didn't try to reinvent the wheel there. Playback quality is fine... it's no HDTV or DVD, even though the first programs I've watched were recorded at "excellent" quality on the TiVo.
One thing both Mike and I have noticed is that the transfer time between TiVo and computer is dreadfully slow. Over WiFi (802.11b), the transfer rate is <1GB per hour. A program recorded at medium quality seems to take about 1 GB of storage per hour -- thus, the transfer rate is as slow as watching program playback. An excellent quality program I recorded takes 2.3 GB of storage -- and took 2½ hours to transfer to my laptop. The only upside is that the TiVo desktop software appears to run a background task, such that any time the TiVo is visible to it, it continues to transfer programs. Thus, anytime my laptop has been on the home network, I've seen more TiVo programs being downloaded. That's nice.
Mike has been doing some experiments with burning DVDs out of the TiVo Desktop software -- perhaps he can report on those in the comments.
This is a nice incremental feature for TiVo, but it's not a barn-burner. There are other PVR solutions that allow PC playback without all this extra work. My TiVo is a sunk cost (I paid the one-time subscription fee), so any new features are a nice bonus. I'm just not sure I'd recommend anyone buy TiVo because of this specific feature -- though I still recommend it for overall ease-of-use and integration.
Post a Comment
- 2
Bill Geimer | 2/10/2005 10:52:17 AM
TivoToGo sounds neat. As to Tivo itself, they do seem to have tried to make it as intuitive to use as the Apple folk did with the Mac GUI. Its just amazing how fast non-technical folk can navigate the menus and the set it and forget it, to borrow a phrase from the RonCo man.
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Carl http://www.iminstant.com | 2/10/2005 11:33:33 AM
I am looking forward to trying this out when I get back. Right now Tivo is recording and no one is watching :-(
Not sure I'd give Tivo a deathwatch, but with the integrated DVR/Cable boxes coming out, it's going to become much harder for them.
Why would you buy a DVR when you get one for free ;-)
- 4 COMMENT DELETED | 2/10/2005 11:49:12 AM
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Mike Lazar | 2/10/2005 12:58:39 PM
I've heard a lot on the death watch, and it seems like Wall St. is buying into as well. TiVo stock is down pretty sharply over the past 6 months, I believe. It's the argument that they will get crushed by Comcast & DirecTV basically giving PVRs away to take the market. I can't argue with that right now. The item I am thinking will help some will be the HD TiVo with integrated DVD burner. Of course, they'll only sell to the people who actually get HDTV and like it (DirecTV & Comcast HD is a joke right now), so that incremental $10,000 won't save the company.
Now, for the technical items. I can't even tell you how long it is taking to burn DVDs. I can't bear to watch it. I've sat there for 30 minutes burning an hour show at 8x and it barely sent the status bar anywhere. I simply do it before I go to bed and wake up to a freshly burned DVD. The SonicDVD software is very easy to use, and it has a GIANT button for grabbing your TiVo shows. Setting up the burn process is beyond simple. It just takes the patience of a monk to get through it all. As for the quality, it's very nice. It's actually nicer than TiVo, since you don't have the signal loss from going from the TiVo to the TV via an S-Video, RCA, or coax cable. I'd actually think about recording movies I want to watch at Best quality, then burn them to DVD for playback. Sure, it might take 6 hours to burn, but what do I care when it's going on at 3 am?
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Debbie | 2/10/2005 1:48:01 PM
I don't have Tivo. I have a Replay TV from the Panasonic line that I "believe" started (or at least was neck in neck at the beginning) of this DVR trend. I LOVE IT! And mine doesn't even connect to my PC. My co-worker got one of the newer versions with the PC connectivity. He's recorded and then burned things for me quite easily.
From what I know of each of the two services, they are still far better than what comes from Comcast or DirectTV. I only wish the Replay TV took off instead of Tivo ;-)
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Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/10/2005 2:06:59 PM
Via Thomas Hawk, { Link }
I see this link on Jupiter Research's blog:
{ Link }
I don't buy it. I was able to download 200 MB from within IBM, through the VPN and the router, over the same wifi, in nine minutes. That's a lot faster, with two extra hops, than TiVo on the same segment.
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Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/10/2005 3:58:21 PM
One of my readers has taken this discussion elsewhere...
{ Link }
Interesting that both Mike and my experiences are consistent with the answers in that thread... the DRM and other pieces of the TivoToGo story are adding overhead vs. other solutions like ReplayTV.
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Nanook | 2/10/2005 6:34:05 PM
Well, I don't think there's any DRM or other overhead on the file transfer. With the 7.1 release you can actually access your TiVo with a web browser and download the .tivo files directly without using any of the TTG software, etc.. Just open a web browser and put this in for the url:
h t tps : //~IP Address of your TIVO~/nowplaying/index. html
NOTE: I put the spaces in there to prevent it from being changed to a link.
When you are prompted to login -- the user id is 'tivo' and the password is your media access key number.
This method of downloading files to your computer may be about twice as fast as the TTG software. I don't know why, but that is what I see. Also my JavaHMO 2.3 can suck the files over faster than TTG as well.
This is also word that the 7.1a release of TiVo software may include wireless g support. Some seem to have working Linksys and Netgear G adapters with the 7.1a release -- but there may be some caveats regarding the version of your Series 2 TiVo as well as the hardware release version of the adapters.
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Wild Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 2/10/2005 6:38:51 PM
Ahh. I would heartily recommend the cachecard (9thtee.com I think..) - it gives you a wired 100mb interface and a 512mb ram cache - makes those tivo's fly.
Even at 54g speeds, downloading big shows is a show-stopper...
Please, god, dont let Tivo die. Its one of the few things that keep me sane. And now I've got broadband, I can schedule (and possibly download shows) remotely.
---* Bill
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Nanook | 2/10/2005 6:57:55 PM
OK -- Sorry -- correction to my first post -- I just tested again and a 1GB show took 15 minutes over my wired adapter. That would put 2GB at about 30 minutes. This was also using the download via the web browser method.
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Kevin | 2/10/2005 7:16:04 PM
I bought 150 shares of Tivo this week. In 5 years, that could buy me a pack of gum, a new TV, or maybe something better. We'll see. :)
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Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/10/2005 7:17:45 PM
@9 - so where do you put the files when you download through this method? Are they straight WMV/AVI/MPEG that can be accessed without the TiVo desktop?
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Tim Leach | 2/11/2005 6:12:01 AM
@10 Bill, where did you get your Tivo from ? Do you know if you can still buy them in the UK ?
As someone who is desperate is get rid of his VHS recorder, I've been waiting for ages for the Sony PSX to be released (Playstation 2 + PVR hard disk/DVD recorder), but so far the only place where you can buy them is Japan, and it's beginning to look as if they'll never be released anywhere else. They haven't been a big success in Japan.
I really wish that I had bought a Tivo when I had the opportunity, as these days no one seems to sell them anymore.
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Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/11/2005 6:40:05 AM
@10 - Cachecard is only for TiVo series 1... I have series 2.
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Nanook | 2/11/2005 8:14:10 AM
@13 -- They download just the same as .tivo files, and I'm just putting them in the same 'My Tivo Recordings' directory under My Docs...
Then you can either use the Sonic software to convert them from .tivo and save them to DVD, or you could view them right in Win Media player if you have no intent on burning them to DVD and just want them on a laptop to view on the road, etc...
IF HOWEVER you do want to convert them to .mpeg, there is a way to do it without the MyDVD software. There is some talk of it here { Link } but to go directly to this quick solution, here is the info on how to do it with tools that are more than likely already on your PC { Link } -- you may play with different demux and mux filters you find on your pc already, some may work better than others for you -- and with this tool you simply drag & drop the filters and your video files, drawing lines from the output of one filter to the input of the next -- no coding required. You can even whip up some xml to save your filter formats, etc.. It wouldn't take much to automate this...
With the above demux, then mux method (basically you are stripping the audio and video from the .tivo file into seperate streams, then putting it back together again into a .mpeg file) I can turn a .tivo file into a .mpeg in a very short time. HOWEVER -- if you then want to burn that file to a DVD, your dvd burning software may want to transcode it into a different format, as I'm not sure that the TiVo records in the same resolution format of a standard DVD quality file, and your burning software may try to redo it. ONE ADVANTAGE of doing it this way however is you can edit the .mpeg using your favorite video editing software. That is the big advantage for me -- I can take home video of family trips to sporting events, and have the tivo record them off of broadcast TV, then edit the whole family trip together with highlights of the sporting event. Then you get really great family video's with the fancy graphics and sound clips from the network TV broadcasts.
DISCLAIMER: THIS ALL SHOULD ONLY BE DONE FOR PERSONAL USE IN YOUR OWN HOME AND NOT BE DISTRIBUTED!!! ;-P
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long time notes coward | 2/11/2005 9:32:20 AM
500 Mb here, attachments moved to common store.
My preference is to store everything forver. Digital information is not like empty jogurt cans. Digital information does not take up physical space, and there is no good reason for deleting email - ever ever ever. Quotas are stupid, and will be laughed at by our children.
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long time notes coward | 2/11/2005 9:37:25 AM
Sorry, posted to the wrong article. Was supposed to be to the email quota article. Finally a downside to using tabbed browsing in Firefox:)
I think part of the limitations on transfer speed are the USB limitations combined with the wireless transfer rate. One option (may not be practical in may people's installations) is to use a wired ethernet adapter -- and with the 7.1x TiVo software, it now supports USB 2.0 drivers, you can get MUCH BETTER transfer speeds.
I switched mine to a wired adapter and now a 2GB recording only takes about 10-15 minutes to transfer.
You should also check out JavaHMO 2.3 -- it will let you create 'rules' to automatically download certain shows, etc.. And also check out the new HME stuff that TiVo has opened up to developers with the recent release of their development SDK. A good site to look at some of those details is at { Link } .
Even with the release of the new HME SDK however, it seems most pvr and tivo bloggers seem to be starting a death watch... I hope not, I love my TiVo, and having it turn into a boat anchor will really be a bummer!