Update on Notes/Domino 8.x maintenance release plans

June 10 2009

A just-published technote outlines IBM's plans for maintenance releases around Notes and Domino 8.x.

8.0.2 is the last planned/scheduled maintenance release (MR) for the 8.0x codestream. Notes/Domino 8.0.x will continue to be supported for a minimum of 5+3 years (following IBM SWG policy).  In lieu of producing a Notes/Domino 8.0.3 MR, more frequent 8.0.2 FixPacks will be provided.  IBM will continue producing both maintenance releases and fix packs for Notes/Domino 8.5.x, and customers who have deployed Notes/Domino 8.0.2 should evaluate the benefits of the 8.5.1 maintenance release (when available).
We made this decision for a number of reasons.  First,  to simplify options.  My team and I spend a lot of time discussing "8.0.2 versus 8.5" with customers, partners, ISVs.  We want the answer to converge on 8.5.1 once that is available in a few months, rather than be a decision tree.

Second, it conveys the relative importance we attach -- and many of you concur -- to the 8.5 release.  Based on support call volume, 8.5 may be the fastest release of Notes/Domino we've seen in many, many years.  Blogs, surveys, polls all support the notion that many of you are moving rapidly to 8.5, especially for the server (DAOS, compression, I/O improvement all being strong motivations, not to mention XPages etc on the developer side).  With a fixpack for 8.5 planned for early July, 8.5 is "the" 8.x release that makes sense for all organizations.  If you have not yet started your 8.x deployment or upgrade, my advice is to strongly consider 8.5, especially on the server.  Our collective team has been sharing this message with ISVs and partners as well, in terms of making sure they support 8.5 or will do so quickly (we have been in market now for five months).  And if you rolled out the 8.0.2 client, the 8.5 / 8.5.1 client is a very small step-up, one that clearly requires no training/re-training for users.

Last, it helps emphasize our strategy around product updates.  I have talked to some customers who still have a "wait for the next maintenance release" mindset around deployments and certifications.  The fixpacks and cumulative hotfixes haven't quite become part of the routine.  Part of this message is to convey that we view these as the way to "maintain" a release of Notes/Domino in our strategy today.  Point releases are important, but are somewhat more incremental and often contain interesting features.  You have the choice as to which path makes sense for your deployment.

I want to be clear that there is nothing "wrong" with being on 8.0.x (preferably 8.0.2) today and for long into the future.  As the technote states, we will provide fixpacks and the like for 8.0.2 on an ongoing basis.  If you are already there, that's great.  But instead of thinking about an 8.0.3 as the next step, your next step will be 8.5.1.

As for 8.5.1, we will begin a managed beta program (essentially the second beta, after the first design partner beta in May) in a week or two.  If you are interested in being part of the beta, send me mail @work with your "LDD ID" (what you use to sign into developerWorks Lotus forums) and I'll see what I can do (you'll need to be covered by or sign an IBM AECI, or non-disclosure agreement) fill out this form on ibm.com.  The final date for 8.5.1 release hasn't been announced, but our internal target is in the next 125 days.  (The value you get from reading all the way to the end!)  Some of the product managers and developers have been previewing a few of the new 8.5.1 features on their blogs and Twitter streams -- looks like another great release coming up.

Link: ibm.com: Maintenance update on Notes/Domino 8.x >

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Notes and Domino 8  Add/View Comments [57]

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  1. 1  Henry Ferlauto http://www.geniusinside.com | 6/10/2009 1:43:14 PM

    I agree with the philosophy.

    Are there any programs in place to help those customers on 6.5/x and 7.x procrastinating for whatever reason to help them get up to date?

    The longer an organization does not upgrade to 8.x (IMHO), the more likely that organization might migrate to another platform.

  1. 2  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2009 1:46:01 PM

    Yes, almost the entire Lotus field organization is focused on helping the remaining customers on Notes/Domino 6.x or 7 with value propositions and business cases to upgrade to Notes/Domino 8.x.

  1. 3  Jim Casale http://www.jimcasale.net | 6/10/2009 1:47:13 PM

    @1 Many companies are still looking for third party product certification for 8.x (especially 8.5)

  1. 4  Martijn de Jong http://www.socialsoftwareblog.nl | 6/10/2009 2:31:37 PM

    For the moment the 8.5 release is simply not ready to put into production in larger domains. There are simply too many small problems (which could get huge in larger domains) with it for which we would have to install too many hotfixes. That Fixpack is really needed to even consider advicing my clients to move to 8.5

  1. 5  Matt Cook  | 6/10/2009 2:43:52 PM

    What are the "too may small problems" in 8.5 that are keeping you from moving forward?

  1. 6  Erik Brooks  | 6/10/2009 2:53:51 PM

    Thanks for posting this, Ed. I've had the feeling that this direction was being taking and it's nice to see some authoritative clarification.

    Though the Fix List server doesn't appear to be working over the web at the moment (check your 8.5FP1 Fix Pack link).

    @5 - I've heard of many memory leaks on the 8.5 server, crashes with NotesViewNavigator, etc. We're still testing 8.5.0, but those could be show-stoppers for us.

    If the proposed fixes for 8.5FP1 were listed in the Fix List database that would be a big help as to what to "poke" to see if it explodes. As it stands now we've got a big "dot-oh" release with no public information of potential problems to be fixed in FP1.

  1. 7  Scott Vrusho  | 6/10/2009 3:03:33 PM

    @6 - Draft list for 8.5 FP1 has been live since last Friday. check the "view notices" link on the right hand side...once the link is back up. There is a technical difficulty where the URL is opening the wrong doc. It's being fixed now.

  1. 8  Matt  | 6/10/2009 3:20:23 PM

    @5 - You cannot add ANY USER with an apostrophe in their name to the integrated calendar feature.

    That is a show stopper in my opinion.

  1. 9  Barry Rosen  | 6/10/2009 3:26:48 PM

    This is good news. Just like with 6.x and 6.5.x, having two code streams is confusing. Also from a support perspective we are supporting 6.5.x,7.x,8.0.x and 8.5.x. My question is why does Lotus create two simultaneous code streams in the first place? Why didn't they just release 8.5 as 8.03? Timing issues?

  1. 10  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2009 3:44:24 PM

    @9 Barry, that's a good question. (/me channels Brent Peters in authoring a reply)

    We made 8.5 a '.5' release because of all the major server improvements. Perhaps if I could do it over again, we would have combined 8.0.2 and 8.5 into a 8.x-type of release, but the schedule ended up with those releases being over four months apart (and more work going into 8.5 across the board). Calling it a major release did the right thing in terms of getting us major market exposure (the Macworld launch etc) but at times, I feel like it has distanced me from telling the 8.0 story overall (new UI, Eclipse, composite apps, widgets, etc.). It's fair to see this move as a way to re-align the two.

  1. 11  Scott Vrusho  | 6/10/2009 4:11:14 PM

    @6

    1) link for 8.5 FP1 status seems to be working { Link }

    2) Link to 8.5 FP1 draft fix list (there will be more coming this is the majority but not all) { Link }

  1. 12  Martijn de Jong http://www.socialsoftwareblog.nl | 6/10/2009 4:27:06 PM

    @5 For example, there's the AdminP problem for which a hotfix came out at the release date of 8.5. There's also a problem where the using the ID Vault and syncing the Notes & HTTP password causing huge amounts of unneeded AdminP requests. For large domains those are serious issues.

  1. 13  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2009 4:29:16 PM

    @12 but the adminP problem was hotfixed the day we shipped 8.5. Also the ID Vault is a new 8.5 feature -- you don't have to turn that on when deploying 8.5. So why would these be the problems that are holding back deployment?

  1. 14  Randy Bye  | 6/10/2009 5:05:21 PM

    8.5 clients start of list:

    1) Complaints about printing e-mail.

    2) Sametime awareness doesn't always work in the inbox/maybe other views. (People can see some people but not others.) Am using Use Canonoical names for status lookup.

    3) If your re-arrange your columns you will hear of colicon errors.

    4) Policies don't always seem to take on the 8.5 client. I have it set to use Domino SSO for sametime but have yet to see it work.

    5) Archive and then delete a folder from your mailfile and it deletes the folder from your archive.

    6)Pay close attention to recent contacts...have seen some odd things due to groups being picked up (people receiving two copies of mail and causing problems in custom apps.)

    7) screen jumps (don't know exactly how to describe this) but numerous complaints.

    8)8.5 servers stop receiving password recovery unless your clients are 8.x.

  1. 15  Erik Brooks  | 6/10/2009 5:06:06 PM

    @Scott - Thanks, I've never known to check the "Notices" links there (or in the Notes client) to see those lists. That's very helpful.

    It would be nice if some more descriptive info was somewhere in the main entry, like when you click on 8.5FP1 under "Latest Fixes". At the moment you see "No Documents Found" which doesn't lead you to think you can investigate further by clicking the tiny "View Notices" link on the far right.

    @5 - Check the link we're talking about... there's 108 potential fixes now listed for 8.5FP1. There may be a "big deal" for you in there somewhere, but maybe not.

  1. 16  Barry Rosen  | 6/10/2009 5:07:09 PM

    @10

    Ed, Thanks for the reply. Makes sense due to the major features added, I just remember the 8.02 Vs 8.5 conversations.

  1. 17  Matt  | 6/10/2009 5:16:35 PM

    @13 - Then why deploy it if you're turning off all the new features? It's like trading your old '79 Buick for a new '79 Buick. It may run a little better, and a little quicker but you're still getting the same features as what you previously had.

    Like a DAOS problem in 8.5 that magically turned it off. DAOS was touted as a big thing, but when you deploy it and all of a sudden it turns itself off, it doesn't really look too good - which makes you hesitant on deploying. Yes this problem was eventually fixed with a HF, but this was months after 8.5 was released.

    In my opinion having 6 months release cycles needs to change. It's too long for major bugs that aren't fixed with a HF (this is more apparent on a client side)

  1. 18  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2009 5:21:34 PM

    @17 and that's why we do fixpacks.

  1. 19  Matt  | 6/10/2009 5:31:10 PM

    @18 - That's great, but when the problem you are having in your environment doesn't make it into a fixpack, or is stated that will be available in 8.5.1 then you question.

  1. 20  Abraham V  | 6/10/2009 5:38:13 PM

    Here what is holding us to upgrade is the backup solution, we use Backup exec which right now does not officially support 8.5.

    We have also had several problems making groupshield 7 fp2 to work properly with Domino

    What do you guys use for backup and antivirus in Domino 8.5?

  1. 21  Abraham V  | 6/10/2009 5:47:34 PM

    one more thing, maybe not a show stopper to upgrade but dirlint it's suppose to be a great tool to maintain your directory in 8.0x.

    I had a request from upper management to do some clean up of users that were not terminated correctly, after opening a PMR searching for help, the technician advised me to create a test 8.x server a use dirlint to find the terminated users.. guess what.. out of the box dirlint does not work, it create empty xml reports for group membership, the PMR was closed with a SPR created, i dont see it in the fixlist.

  1. 22  Erik Brooks  | 6/10/2009 6:37:07 PM

    @Ed/@18 - Uh, if 8.5FP1 is slated for July, isn't that right at 6 months after 8.5?

    And 8.0.2 -> 8.0.2FP1 -> 8.0.2FP2 were/are each 6-months apart IIRC.

    MRUs are advertised as being released at 120-day intervals (it used to be 90 days):

    { Link }

    ...but I'm pretty sure that window hasn't been met in the past few years. Since around 7.0.1, if I recall.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm *thrilled* to see a FP for a dot-zero release. But for those of us on the fence about a dot-zero release, a 6-month wait for the first fix pack is a bit of a stretch.

  1. 23  Craig Wiseman http://www.Wiseman.La/cpw | 6/10/2009 8:14:00 PM

    Just askin'...

    Palm Pre support?

  1. 24  Rishi  | 6/10/2009 8:18:25 PM

    Ed,

    What are the new features coming with R8.5.1 release ? Is there any link on IBM site which briefly list all ?

    Rish

  1. 25  Chad Scott  | 6/10/2009 8:31:40 PM

    @14 The folder deletion in the archive issue is LMAN7JAHPG, which is in both 8.5.1 and the preliminary fix list for 8.5 FP1.

    @17 The DAOS issue is GRHE7Q9NYN, which is in both 8.5.1 and the preliminary fix list for 8.5 FP1.

  1. 26  JFranchetti  | 6/10/2009 9:32:02 PM

    We are waiting for ISV support with Interwoven (now Autonomy) Worksite and Workshare Protect.

    { Link }

    { Link }

  1. 27  Bhavesh K Munshi  | 6/10/2009 9:34:43 PM

    Good strategy and better to go for 8.5.1 if still on ND6/6.5/7 so that to reap the benefits of all (Client side, server side, even traveler on iPhone).

    But what about big enterprises (I would rate 300+ servers and having 25,000+ mail users), who have already gone to 8.0.1 then immediately upgraded to 8.0.2, what they will say to their CIO offices? how they will justify the move to 8.5.1 ?

    Sorry not to offense, but I see IBM has done it again what was done in Year 2002 with Domino 6 and then having 6.5 within a year.

    At least that time there was single Admin Certification for 6/6.5, Now we will have to pay extra to get certified for Domino 8.5 even we have already upgraded our certifications to Domino 8 :'-( .

  1. 28  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/10/2009 10:01:03 PM

    @26 Jeff, did Brent Peters get back to you on your note?

    @27 I am not suggesting that there is an immediate reason to go from 8.0.2 to 8.5.1. I am saying that the path going forward will be to 8.5.1 as if it was an 8.0.3.

  1. 29  tom oneil http://www.codepress.net/b | 6/10/2009 10:01:33 PM

    I'm sorry. I'm still dealing with development/upgrade issues going from 6.5 to 8.0.2 Basic and you want us to consider upgrading to a x.5 release? Bah.

    I'll try to be more positive when I get all of my problems fixed.

  1. 30  Tinus Riyanto  | 6/10/2009 10:34:12 PM

    Just sharing my opinion here since we probably won't upgrade until Domino 7 expires.

    1. I appreciate the hard work for streamlining the load of Notes 8.x client but the fact is the standard client is still heavier than Notes 7.x basic. I know that you cannot have shiny new feature with the same load but our users are vicious, they will blame every problem on the most recent system change or software / hardware installed.

    Yes, we can use basic client but that would negate some of the usefull feature (like the full feature integrated Sametime client)

    2. Like some other people pointed out, the third party vendor support (anti virus, backup, etc) hasn't catch up. AFAIK, even Sametime 8 is not supported on Domino 8.5 (maybe BES 5 has ?)

    3. Based on the number of hotfixes available I get the impression that Domino 8.5 is still full of bugs. Yes, I can install those fixes but I much prefer that the version arrived late than arrived early with plenty of hotfix. That's why personally I will wait until 8.5.1 to fully utilized it personally.

    @21, From my personal experience, fix list will only contain fixed SPR. To check the status of ongoing SPR you will have to contact IBM support.

  1. 31  Stijn Soens  | 6/11/2009 7:15:48 AM

    @20: I've deployed several 8.5 releases with Groupshield 7.0 FP2 but the product is crap (I mean GS), always has been. Only 1 of the 6 or 7 Domino 8.5 servers where Groupshield ran, updated correctly to FP2 but it's not a Domino issue. I'm very pleased with Symantec AV, simple install, no issues and runs on Domino 8.5. (Symantec also supports non-Windows platforms).

    @Ed: In general, I find it very hard to keep track of the different fixes that come out for 8.5. It would be nice to have an RSS feed by product on the fix central or a flash update in the knowledge base once a fix is released in the fix central.

  1. 32  Mark Hughes  | 6/11/2009 7:40:35 AM

    @23 in theory since the new traveler will support the active sync protocol, i would think the palm pre could connect and work, though not officially supported i would wager. Try out the beta at lotus greenhouse for the iPhone and let everyone know how it goes.

  1. 33  Dusan Mataruga  | 6/11/2009 7:48:00 AM

    Our problem is that Sametime is not supported on Domino 8.5 on i5.

    Here is the link: { Link }

  1. 34  Martijn de Jong http://www.socialsoftwareblog.nl | 6/11/2009 9:04:33 AM

    @13 If you have a large amount of servers (400+ in my clients case) you don't want to install hotfixes as it's a lot of manual work and far from error proof. Therefore if a larger organisation has to decide whether they'll upgrade to a new version, knowing they'd have to install a bunch of hotfixes for the newer version, the choice is simple. They won't. That's why I say that fixpack is really needed to even consider an upgrade.

  1. 35  D. Lynch  | 6/11/2009 9:48:14 AM

    The inability for symantec to currently support 8.5 with Netbackup, and not even an eta on when, is our constraint towards going to 8.5.1 when it is released

  1. 36  Tony Bulding http://www.NationalInstruments.com | 6/11/2009 10:40:13 AM

    This is great news, I have used 8.5 extensively and can vouch for it's increased speed. My only concern is with the Developer Client, don't get me wrong, I love the eclipse environment, however I had to revert to 802 because of the numerous issues I when working in designer. Will 8.5.1 address issues with the Designer Client?

  1. 37  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/11/2009 10:44:06 AM

    @36 for sure.

  1. 38  Patrick Picard  | 6/11/2009 11:03:08 AM

    @14

    1) Complaints about printing e-mail.

    I've had no problems printing email. However, printing from Noteman....diff story!

    2) Sametime awareness doesn't always work in the inbox/maybe other views. (People can see some people but not others.) Am using Use Canonoical names for status lookup.

    I also experience this. Although I've not called IBM,

    4) Policies don't always seem to take on the 8.5 client. I have it set to use Domino SSO for sametime but have yet to see it work.

    SSO not working for Sametime is a show stopper. In Notes 7, I can force Sametime login at notes startup and SSO works. If that doesn't work in 8.5, that will be a big problem

    5) Archive and then delete a folder from your mailfile and it deletes the folder from your archive.

    Pretty significant issue!

    6)Pay close attention to recent contacts...have seen some odd things due to groups being picked up (people receiving two copies of mail and causing problems in custom apps.)

    7) screen jumps (don't know exactly how to describe this) but numerous complaints.

    I called it jitter/resizing. seen it on a few desks...

  1. 39  Patrick Picard  | 6/11/2009 11:07:16 AM

    Sametime 8.0.2 not being supported on Domino 8.5 is a stopper. Many customers use domino partitions to increase the TCO....if I have to start building new servers to support other Lotus products because of compatibility.....even tho I am up to date on release....is ridiculous

  1. 40  Chuck Hauble  | 6/11/2009 11:22:58 AM

    @20 @35 Netbackup with the Lotus Notes Agent supports 8.5 today.. according to this document --> { Link }

    The only caveat is that it doesn't have support for dealing with DAOS directly just yet..

    Support of the Lotus 8.5 Domino Attachment and Object Server (DAOS) feature is planned for a future release.

  1. 41  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 6/11/2009 11:33:26 AM

    @39 come on Patrick, you can't expect IBM to do back support for server versions. Sametime 8.5, coming soon, will support Domino 8.5. Asking them to make a new version work with an existing product version is not realistic.

    I have had zero issues with sametime and the notes 8.5.0 client for awareness. Nor SSO. If these are real issues, get PMR's made for them. That is the only way to get issues fixed.

  1. 42  Kevin Mort http://www.theglobalmind.com | 6/11/2009 12:06:33 PM

    Generally speaking, fewer active codestreams = good. So I'm happy with that.

    The one biggie I've seen is there is an issue in the 8.5 client code where it looks for certain WMI items in Windows. If they aren't perfect, the client startup may die. Using 8.0.2 solves this, although can create a few other issues when you're running an 8.5 server you will likely need to push those users mailfiles down to 8.0 as well. I understand that's supposed to be in the 8.5.1 code.

    @39 It isn't the first time we've had this case, not to justify it, just saying. And with Domino partitions on platforms that support it well, like IBM i...you can have multiple Domino server versions installed as well and concurrently running. Or you go with a VM and run it that way if you have VMWare.

  1. 43  Patrick Picard  | 6/11/2009 12:09:46 PM

    @41 John, i expect the lastest versions to be compatible with the lastest versions, I am not asking backward compatibility to 6.5 or 7.

    I consider my environment quite simple.

    1 AIX LPAR, with 5 domino partitions.

    -Mail

    -Apps

    -hub and domdoc and rightfax

    -Sametime 8.0.1

    -QuickR 8.1.1

    1 windows box for BES.

    Based on current requirements, I need to move out Sametime to another box. Then probably a reinstall for ST 8.5 because afaik it will be WAS powered.

    I can't take advantage of Quickr 8.2 until im at Domino 8.5.

    Furthermore, upgrading between versions on AIX require reinstalls of Sametime.

    IMHO the upgrade paths have become more difficult since 6.5/7

    Ill have to look into having different versions of domino on the same physical box to make Sametime happy, otherwise ill move it to a windows box....which now makes another server to manage.

    With the growing number of lotus products, it will become harder to mix and match versions.

  1. 44  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 6/11/2009 12:34:34 PM

    @41 - "come on Patrick, you can't expect IBM to do back support for server versions." Sure I can. If ST 8.0.2 won't run on Domino 8.5.0, IBM should issue either a Fixpack or an 8.0.3 of Sametime that WILL run on it. Anything else is absolute nonsense. I should never be held up on moving my Domino servers to a new version and improving my TCO.

    If Lotus can't manage to coordinate their release schedules between the two most deployed products in their entire portfolio, then they need to get their act together.

  1. 45  Erik Brooks  | 6/11/2009 2:03:36 PM

    @41 - "Sametime 8.5, coming soon, will support Domino 8.5"

    So Sametime's support for Domino 8.5 will be 6+ months after 8.5 shipped?

    What happens when N/D 8.5.1 is released? Is Sametime 8.5 going to be supported on that, or is that going to be another several months later for Sametime 8.5.1?

    And it's not just about the servers. There are people out there where 8.5 is stable but their users and developers *need* 8.5.1 for the cleaned-up Eclipse and DDE weirdness/flakiness. I'd hate to be that admin, "Sorry, your better user experiences, XPages in the Notes client, etc. are all waiting on Sametime."

    Of course, from what I'm reading in the forums it sounds like they might be held up due to lack of backup solutions, too. Ugh.

    Ah, the challenges of once again putting the IBM/Lotus dev factory back to 100% production. Gotta say though that I prefer this to the ND6/6.5/7 days. :-)

  1. 46  Kevin Mort http://www.theglobalmind.com | 6/11/2009 4:12:05 PM

    @45 "Of course, from what I'm reading in the forums it sounds like they might be held up due to lack of backup solutions, too. Ugh."

    Well that depends on what "solutions" folks are implementing, and what the hooks are from the backup solution into Domino.

    I submit there's more than one way to do it, and that they don't all have to have some specific support for Domino.

    Back to the releases thing...echo what Nathan's saying in @44 as well regarding fixpacks etc to get things running. Customers really don't like running multiple Domino releases to support Lotus' own code downlevels. Testing upstream is another thing, and Multi-Versioning on i is great for that.

  1. 47  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 6/11/2009 5:32:36 PM

    @41 John, that's nuts. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a vendor to keep the latest versions of two complementary products compatible with each other!

    As an aside, I seem to recall an announcement from Lotusphere in recent years talking about more co-ordinated releases across the IBM Lotus product stream.

  1. 48  Rob McDonagh http://CaptainOblivious.com | 6/11/2009 7:27:31 PM

    @47 - Which time, Ben? I've heard that announcement more than once... heh...

  1. 49  Stuart McIntyre http://blog.collaborationmatters.com | 6/12/2009 2:19:04 AM

    Regarding the support for Lotus products (Sametime, Quickr etc) on new versions of Domino, I think there needs to be a documented strategy of keeping up with the latest releases - { Link }

  1. 50  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 6/12/2009 2:43:56 AM

    Rob, that was with Domino 6.5. Quickplace and Sametime made huge jumps in version numbers to bring them inline. Lotus promised to coordinate releases from that one on to make sure a customer always knows which versions work together. I still have the briefing notes.

    Sounded like a good idea, and still does.

  1. 51  Mark Hughes  | 6/12/2009 7:18:40 AM

    I think the problem of late is all the changes to the http service in domino with xpages and other stuff, they could still make it work, but might have to release a patch or something.

  1. 52  Chuck Hauble  | 6/12/2009 9:36:20 AM

    When the 8.5FP comes out, will there be a good way to package it together with the full install so that smart upgrade can do it all at once?

  1. 53  Scott Vrusho  | 6/12/2009 3:17:21 PM

    @52 - You can chain smart upgrade operations together. Just have a batch file that does one then the next.

  1. 54  MarvinK  | 6/14/2009 7:23:32 AM

    We've installed 8.5 (w/DAOS) on the server, and the 8.x client is pretty and more modern--but quirky.

    One thing they REALLY need to include in the fixpack, but I don't see listed, is the word wrapping with Sametime CSS file if you run IE8 (even if it isn't your default browser). This is compounded by the very unpredictable location of that css file, making it less ideal to script a fix. Those are the type of quirks we're hoping to see fixed with the clients.

  1. 55  Brian  | 6/18/2009 8:42:07 AM

    Without getting into what is/or is not working. Can we all agree that the software and the support for the software (no matter what version you are running) has gone downhill for the past 2 years or so.

    My other point I would like to make is that if say you are going to come out with 8.0.3, then you need to come out with 8.0.3. Don't come out and give us some BS about this and that. Do what you say you are going to do. If you don't customers will begin to lose faith in anything that they say.

  1. 56  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 6/18/2009 10:51:49 AM

    @55 the software and support have gone downhill? Surprising and disappointing position. Support metrics would not concur, and as for the product -- the last two years goes back before 8.0 shipped, and I have a hard time thinking that the product was better before Notes 8.